Winter Training....

[nimkii]

We all know that it is cold out and the snow is here, and its going to be here a while. I try and get out as much as I can. There are a couple of horse farms in the area that have indoor training facilities for their horses. Do you think they would rent out the facility for dog use for an hour a day?

[Kevin Hannah]

You can stop in and ask, worst thing they are going to say is no.

Kevin

[nimkii]

Gonna give it a go this weekend. I'll let ya's know.....

[Misty Marsh]

I've use one in the past, but they are usually pretty tight side to side, but still OK for enrty level casting drills with a young dog. Great for OB work and FF, FTP, enroute force work too.

[eden beardsall]

We have used a couple of horse training arenas in the past . good for drills and preparing for the indoor trial at the Sportemans show .
It is usually easier to get the use of the facility on week days during the day as a lot of riders are still in school and they train at night and on weekends . Some places have a down day for their workers to have a day off and it is available then.
The one place charged by the hour at the other one we all threw in a few bucks and they were more than happy.
Be prepared for cold as it is usually colder in the arena than outside but at least there is no snow.

[Bryan.M]

My boy and me will be going it outdoors.I feel running marks in the snow will build a great deal of muscle mass.I thought of using a snow blower to make trails for pattern blinds, to keep the idea of going strait in his head.This will be our first winter training so I'm open to all suggestions.

Bryan.

[Lpgar]

Or...

Come and joing the fun at the Long Point Training Clubs December Training Trial on Sunday....Green Grass at the Point at the Moment. No need for indoors...just wear some clothing....and join in the Fun.

10:00am.... BayPoint Kennels

We hold a session the second Sunday every month of the winter in the Long Point area. A different Member hosts the day each month....the idea is like a Picnic trial...but more concept training involved than competion. Holding Blinds....crowds....other Dogs. Great to inject in with your normal training to bring the feeling of competition but with the control of training.

Gar

[just chessies]

Bryan.M The only thing I would worry about training in the winter is the deep snow with a crust on it even if the crust can hold the dog when running if it hits a soft spot and the dog breaks through it can hurt it,s front end or break a toe nail. Like you suggested running line when they have been cleared with a snow blower is good or wait till the lakes freeze and the snowmobile people run the lakes and pack the snow down is good I have done that at one time or another just my 2cts. worth

[luvmylabs]

We usually run the snow in winter if it isn't too deep, but this year we have an inch of ice on everything. Can't run the dogs on that. Asking for crutiate injuries as well as leg cuts and all kinds of other possible injuries. Won't be training outside again until we can find a clean parking lot or the ice melts. Right now my pup is doing house drills. In the short term that is not all bad as doing "push,pull" drills, "back up" drills and "sit, stay and down stay" are good for him to learn. I don't usually spend a lot of time on these as I am usually more concerned with marking and handling drills. I am also going to put him in some OB classes until I can get him back out in the field. Best I can do right now.

Anne

[rocko]

Yep, becareful.......I let my pup run around in a park by my house....... just today, he came back with a small cut on his one leg from the snowy ice.

[Greg]

With the parking lot drills do you wait till they are covered in snow?

I was going to do my casting drills in the big parking lots around wonderland at lunch but I am worried about my dog cause she dives on the bumpers LOL!

So i think she may break a tooth or get road rash on her nose :(

[Bryan.M]

Yeah,I'm leary of parking lots,they seem to get a glaze on them.Great for wagon wheel drills though.Great replies,please keep your Great White Northern training thoughts comming.

Bryan.

[Jojoe]

In the evenings, I walk my dog up a dead end road and back. On the way up I place a few bumpers on each side of the road. On the way back I que 'find it' my upland hunting release and Tucker has some fun sniffing them out in the dark. I only wish my road was a little wider.

As for Greg's concern about road rash, Tucker's first fun bumper on the plowed road taught him an important lesson:opps:...now he cherry picks each mark at full speed - if he misses he gets it on the return.:yikes:

[luvmylabs]

Hardest thing we found to do was blinds in the snow. Once one dog does the blind you can usually bet the rest will follow the same track. Used to have to move to one side or the other by a few yds. to run the blind. If you had 5 or 6 dogs there was no way you could all get a fresh start without hitting someone else's track. On the other hand you could get some good casting corrections in on an older dog if they followed a previous wrong track. After a while they would make the attempt to make their own track rather than get into trouble. Good practise for when you want them to take a good line into cattails or cover ignoring previous paths.

Anne

[nimkii]

The reason I would like to find an indoor area for training is because of the crust on the snow we have here in Peterborough. We have some serious ice around here right now. I just don't want to see my dog get cut up or worse yet wreck a joint or ligament.

[duxbac]

I've made straight paths in the snow 100 or 200 yards long in a spoke pattern to teach lining. I simply plant a dokken/bumper at the end of each spoke. The trick is to make the paths absolutely straight--harder than it sounds. There is not the danger of crusted snow as I've broken a path and the hope is the dog learns to run straight blinds.This worked well last year with a year old dog.
I was thinking of doing the same thing this year just lenghtening it out. What do you more experienced trainers think?

[deb]

You should come north of Peterborough. We don't have any crust, just lots and lots of snow. If you can wade the snow there is not danger of getting cut or injured. I have been working on the drive and township road. We live at the end of a dead road so there is no traffic.
deb

[Retrievers ONLINE]

Here's what I think!

Learning to run straight requires that a dog learns to ignore obstacles and hazards and not take the easy way.

Mowed and plowed and snowshoed paths teach a dog to take the easy way. I won't even do it on the Double-T!

Running paths, the dog asssumes no responsibility. As Anne described above, try running 2 dogs and watch the 2nd go where the 1st went.

There are some winter time solutons using paths. You have to really think about this. How can you teach a dog in deep snow -that has paths- to go straight and not take the easiest route?

I'll be interested in your thoughts --- meanwhile I am starting to think about and pack for places where there is none of this ugly ice!!


Cheers


Dennis

[captainjack]

Dennis,

I am surprised that you do not recommend paths in the snow because the dog likes to take the easy way and yet your packing your bags to go to dog training heaven! Sounds like a double standard to me as it seems like you are not opposed to humans taking the easy way.:boo:

Stay home and tough it out!

Have a good trip and enjoy - it is the best dog training area that I have ever seen and imagine you even get to ride your horses on off days.

Peter

[luvmylabs]

It maybe wasn't the correct way, but what we did was to treat the path like a ditch or road drill. Start off with a known pile 40yds at 90degrees to the path. Once the dog had been there a couple of times and had a nice path made, we would tighten the angle to the path. If the dog tried to deviate to the old path, we would handle. We used attrition as our two dogs were both young at the time. Would keep moving at a tighter angle to the main path and handle if they left their line. Moved up if they seemed to be really struggling with it. Once they seemed to get the idea, we would get them to cross two paths. Had to really work to find the right situations, but it really seemed to help them understand the go straight concept. It seemed to pay off the following summer when we were training in fields that had been cut in strips for upland hunting. They held their lines extremely well angling through the strips of higher cover.

Anne

PS: Sure do wish I was going down south as well. Think of us poor trainers struggling in the snow and ice as you run your dogs in that nice warm water & green grass down there. Have a good trip.

[duxbac]

Thanks for the advise! This year if the conditions are right I wil run at angles across the snow paths.

[Misty Marsh]

I say "confidence is key" and with a young dog in it's "T" & "TT" drills snowblowing paths is a great idea:nice work: to get the dog running straight and confident. With a more advanced dog out of transition I'd say that running decheating drills across roads and blown paths is a good idea. One word of caution is that winter training offers many, many more oppertunities to really screw up a dogs joints or worse, so be careful of parking lots, unknown fields and icy locations. My ortho vet took in a 4 month old field bred lab last winter that went off the edge of a frozen pond and broke both front legs as a result of the landing (water level was low). The owner at the time wanted the dog put to sleep as he had no interest in the pup:boxing: anymore. #1 thats why I use this vet, #2 why I don't risk anything for alittle winter work, #3 the pups doing great now:angel:

[Bryan.M]

Great advice! I would really like to hear how some of you sequence your winter work.
Thanks Bryan.

[Tim]

I don't think the potential gain is worth the risk when dealing with snow and ice, there are enough chances for injury in the summer when hazzards are visible.
The original idea about a horse barn is a good idea, ww, no-no drills, very boring drills in the summer but in the winter....

JMHO

[luvmylabs]

I agree that a horse barn is the best in this weather, but it is not like there are available horse barns around every corner. When we had the use of one, we used it when it was too cold or too icy or the snow was too deep. Otherwise we trained outside. We did lots of drills in a parking lot. We knew the lot, and we did lots of basic drills on it. Another option could be school yards. The kids have tramped the snow & ice down so it can be used. It is true that caution must be used when doing winter training, but if you are resourceful, you can still find places to train on a limited basis. Anything is better than being house bound. Right now, my little guy is house bound because even the lots and school yards are full of ice, so he does little house drills. It keeps him learning.

Anne

[Misty Marsh]

School yards are a great option if they are snow packed and not icy. I have one 75 yards form my place and will use it for running basic blinds that focus on excersise more than concept.

[nimkii]

Wow, I can't get over all the input and opinions on this thread.

I use a school yard but it is crusted over, I don't think they let the kids out on that side of the school and the field on the other side of the school is really packed down because the kids tobaggen down the hill. You could probably skate out there now. Hopefully it will warm up enough to get rid of the crusty and icy stuff.

[captainjack]

Winter time is a good time for bonding with your dog. This is a continuation on the article of bonding with your dog published in this months Online.
I take walks in the woods, and let the dog romp and explore. Sometimes I will work on my whistle training during the walk ie. when the dog is distracted I blow my sit whistle. You will get plenty of opportunity to work on your come in whistle just keeping him in sight. (leave the collar at home!)

When the dog is a pup, I will sometimes take a bumper with me and toss it over a log or into brush to encourage the dog to hunt it up.But most of the time it is a play time for me and the dog.

Charles Morgan, a pioneer in retriever training, used to suggest this for a pup up to a year to get them used to their environment ie. dead logs, stumps, ditches, streams, brush, bush, etc.. I usually take difficult terrain and avoid paths to encourage the dog to make its own path or way.

It is a good time for both of you to work on your general conditioning and mental relaxation.

[Lpgar]

Peter....If I get more mentally relaxed....I will be in a coma. Christ I hate winter.

But that being said....winter is a good time to clean up issues...some drills...No No drills are easy this time of year.

But sometimes just relaxing with a nice glass of Red Wine with your retriever buddies is the best therapy there is for both Dog and Man.

Gar

[luvmylabs]

I agree with both Peter & Gar. The dogs get much more quality house time during the winter and last winter, when the snow was not too deep and there was no ice, I used to take them for a walk every day. They loved to hunt in the bushes and dive into the drifts.Just generally act like puppies again. It was a great relaxer for all of us.

Anne

[Labber]

Peter & Gar,
I'm geussing you guys catch up on all the Oprah episodes you missed during the FT season.
:stirpot:

[Bryan.M]

I hate winter also,but with a dog in tansition now ,I feel I have to train as often as possible through the winter to keep his education and conditioning advancing.With all the dogs that go south for the winter it will be hard enough competing with them on water let alone letting their land skills slide.

Bryan.

[ducksoup]

It's looking a lot like a WHITE XMAS .......
Also sounds like I'm going to be training in the Ste. Marie parking lot this winter (or at least part of it) -- and I'm still planning on being south for part of the winter though as I can't stand training on the "hard" water up here in the Great White North.
And who has time to catch up on Oprah???????

[Misty Marsh]

Bryan,

Just curious what stake/stakes you planned on running next year? I know you had talked about running FT's, and wonder if you considered some HT's?

[Bryan.M]

Bryan,

Just curious what stake/stakes you planned on running next year? I know you had talked about running FT's, and wonder if you considered some HT's?
Trent,If my dog is able to teach me enough through the winter and following summer I plan on catching the last junior in MB.If he wins,We will hit every last one in Canada.(HAHA)I'm going to stay focused on field trials,the competition will keep us both hungry for knowledge.
Bryan.

[Misty Marsh]

If you want my unsolisited advice it would be that if you will only be able to attend possibly 1 or 2 junior FT's next year that entering a few junior/senior hunt tests would be a good idea to expand your handling experience as well as the dog's experiences at a trial. The reason for this is if you plan on playing in the FT game it will be a big jump the following year in the qualy or open if you have not handled a dog at the line or on blinds previously. Running a few seniors will not hamper your FT goals in any way.

[Bryan.M]

If you want my unsolisited advice it would be that if you will only be able to attend possibly 1 or 2 junior FT's next year that entering a few junior/senior hunt tests would be a good idea to expand your handling experience as well as the dog's experiences at a trial. The reason for this is if you plan on playing in the FT game it will be a big jump the following year in the qualy or open if you have not handled a dog at the line or on blinds previously. Running a few seniors will not hamper your FT goals in any way.
Yes I am going to seriously consider that.You don't think a hunt test would cause problems,ie.cammo guns etc?Also would love to hear how you sequence your winter work.
Bryan.

[Misty Marsh]

I personally do not think that having your dog trained to mark multiple retired guns is going to hamper you in anyway. If anything it will teach your dog to mark retried guns better (you will see them in a FT anyways) but also become a better overall marker rather than a straight line white coat referencer. Don't get me wrong FT's offer more of a challege in distance and factor fighting/honesty, but in many cases a accomplished FT dog with 3 retired guns and no reference is lost. I've seen countless FC AFC's look like started pups when challenged with a solid master hunt test tripple retired gun with a shot from the line, or a handler in camo and not a white coat running a blind:wtf: Having a dog that will honour (be steady & under control), and deal with shorter distance is not a bad thing. Don't change your training a whole bunch just mix up white coats for camo here and there. Regarding my winter schedule it does'nt change a whole lot because of the snow, obviously water work is out, but it depends on where the dog is at in it's progression? Skipping steps in a program is never a good way to go about it, so I just continue with new concepts/drills, and less work due to the cold.

[Bryan.M]

Great advice,It makes sence that cross training would produce a more more rounded retreiver.This would probably eliminate any possible confusion while out dropping a couple of mallards for the supper table.

Bryan.

[Misty Marsh]

There are many FT people that think camo is a four letter word to be avoided at all costs when training, but I'm not one of them! I personally think that it can be a great asset to a FT dogs training regimine as it makes the dog more dependant on it's memory and pure marking ability than highly visable white coat set-ups day in and day out. It will also help the dog succeed in picking up that third retired "money bird" at the trial, which is usually the bird that will make or break your day. I know one open dog that will mark anything visable like a champ and run awsome blinds, but retire that "money" bird, and shes done! This is a result of running nothing but visable/technical white coats for the first year of her life. Like I said I'm not trying to diminsish what a FT dog has to do dealing with distance and the many factors in a test, but "balence" in your training program is very important:rockon:

[Retrievers ONLINE]

I have a different viewpoint than several of the opinions expressed in this topic thread.

First, when talking about making paths in the snow for T and TT, Misty Marsh felt that confidence was very important. I agree 100% that confidence is key. However, confidence in running blinds isn’t best developed by running lines that the dog already knows over and over. That is like the recommendation to go back to pattern blinds to develop confidence when running cold blinds. That is not the best way and I wrote much about it in the last issue of Retrievers ONLINE if you’re interested in details. When you run paths you inadvertently teach dogs the wrong idea!

Perhaps, more importantly, the purpose of the T and TT is not to develop confidence!! It is to expand the go, stop, come and simple casting to a larger scale and address problems such as no-goes, bugging, flaring, popping, wrong turns, loopy sits and more, in a semi-yard context BEFORE you move to the field. I want to see these problems now not later!

Second, the topic of white coats vs camo for marks. I have found that it is more difficult to have a white coat throw and then retire than it is to simply throw from a hidden or camo. The dog uses the white coat as a crutch but then it’s gone! The purpose of the white coat is to make sure they see the mark and then teach them to deal with factors and distance and distractions. All of these lessons are confusing with hidden gunners. I know several top US hunt test pros who train white coat until the last few weeks before the hunt test. I agree the dogs need exposure but amazingly little. Field trial dogs fail hunt tests because of the confusion and their excitement and different scenarios until they have been exposed. It’s not because they are dependant on the white coats! If so, the training has been poor in not introducing enough retired guns early on. Hunt test dogs that can’t do field trial marks have not been taught to deal with factors, distance and mark interactions. I see far more hunt test dogs that can’t do field trials than I see field trial dogs that can’t do hunt tests. It’s the training not the dogs!

I seriously doubt the statement that countless FC-AFC’s have been seen looking like started pups at a Master. Only a handful of FC-AFC’s ever run hunt tests. Even only a handful of FTCH-AFTCH’s run hunt tests, so this is an exaggeration!. Perhaps a few Manitoba FTCH’s were seen that weren’t prepared and their handlers were experimenting. BUT, please don’t suggest that top FT dogs can’t handle marks with no visible guns!

The philosophy of hunt test trainers that you have to TEST your dog on realistic hunt tests as THE method to train the dog every day instead of teaching the dog basic fundamentals has gone on too long. Teach the dog basic skills with a high standard, including how to deal with factors, go straight and be under control and you will breeze though most tests.

That’s how I see it from the icy fields in Lindsay!

Dennis

PS. For over 30 years I stayed north all winter training my dogs and I do remember all sorts of things I had to do to be competitive. Anne came closest in how she used paths to teach a dog not to deviate (and yes-black tape and socks!). I think the long winters and time to “think” about solutions was very valuable. I made a least 4 FTCH’s in the snow so I do think it is possible. However, I will admit it is “OK” to train in the south all winter!:laugh:

[Bryan.M]

Great post Dennis! I love this forum,and I'm taking it all in.

Mental note"retrievers online subsciption"

[Vindalbakken]

Great post Dennis! I love this forum,and I'm taking it all in.

Mental note"retrievers online subsciption"

For sure. I subscribed for a couple of years and then got more into the Pointing dogs, but it was a great publication and I am sure has only become better.

[Greg]

Hi Dennis,

I don't mean to hijack the thread but would you mind explaining this statement.

"That is like the recommendation to go back to pattern blinds to develop confidence when running cold blinds. "

It might be a stupid question but I'm new and when I talk about this theory I've had lots of people say they don't agree but I don't understand it well enough to answer their questions on why pattern blinds counter act the performance of cold blinds.

[Misty Marsh]

First, when talking about making paths in the snow for T and TT, Misty Marsh felt that confidence was very important. I agree 100% that confidence is key. However, confidence in running blinds isn’t best developed by running lines that the dog already knows over and over. I feel that making paths for a dog entering T & TT work is more benificial than trying to "stickhande" them through all the confusion of
no-goes, bugging, flaring, popping, wrong turns, loopy sits in the snow atleast for starters, not the entire series of "T" drills, and I feel paths will build confidence. There will be plenty of oppertunity for other corrections down the road when you don't use paths, so on this we can agree to disagree.
confidence in running blinds isn’t best developed by running lines that the dog already knows over and over.I wuold'nt run blinds in snow blown paths either.
I seriously doubt the statement that countless FC-AFC’s have been seen looking like started pups at a Master. Only a handful of FC-AFC’s ever run hunt tests. Even only a handful of FTCH-AFTCH’s run hunt tests, so this is an exaggeration!. Perhaps a few Manitoba FTCH’s were seen that weren’t prepared and their handlers were experimenting. BUT, please don’t suggest that top FT dogs can’t handle marks with no visible guns!
I must admitt that "countless" was an exaggeration on my part I should have said "only all the FC's & AFC's that I have seen try a master tripple" I'm not saying that I've seen all the top level FC's run master set-ups that have blown thier mind as I'm sure many can do it. I was merely trying to point out that training does'nt have to be one way, and one way only regardless of weather it's the HT or FT game you wish to play. Like I siad
Having a dog that will honour (be steady & under control), and deal with shorter distance is not a bad thing. Don't change your training a whole bunch just mix up white coats for camo here and there. Did'nt mean to step on anyones toes, just offered up my observations/opinions, just like you!

[krakadawn]

, but in many cases a accomplished FT dog with 3 retired guns and no reference is lost. I've seen countless FC AFC's look like started pups when challenged with a solid master hunt test tripple retired gun with a shot from the line, or a handler in camo and not a white coat running a blind:wtf:

Certainly not wanting to just talk in generalities but I can't agree with that statement.
Are you saying that FT dogs in general cannot handle a master hunter set up?
An accomplished field trial dog should be able to handle multiple retired guns even with distractions on the line ie-wiper birds.
I have trained with a number of Master Hunters at my training camp in the south-some very fine animals!
I also have the opportunity to train with some extremely talented field trial animals-everything from young all age dogs to National Champions.I just can't buy that they would look like 'started pups' on a master set up unless they have had no exposure to a number of concepts that should have been solidly in place in the first place.

[Retrievers ONLINE]

Hi Dennis,

I don't mean to hijack the thread but would you mind explaining this statement.

"That is like the recommendation to go back to pattern blinds to develop confidence when running cold blinds. "

It might be a stupid question but I'm new and when I talk about this theory I've had lots of people say they don't agree but I don't understand it well enough to answer their questions on why pattern blinds counter act the performance of cold blinds.

Greg, A fairly big topic. I refer you to a 2 1/2 page article in the Sep-Oct issue of Retrievers ONLINE in which I discussed Repeating Blinds, -when you do and when you don't- as well as, tips on overcoming confidence issues on blinds. A complementary article in the same issue by Marilyn Fender describes some myths and realities. It's a good summary and I quote it below:

#1: Repeat blinds to build confidence on blinds.

Illusion:
When people ask how to build confidence on blinds, they often are told to repeat and repeat and/or to use markers at the destination. Repeating a blind to the same location gives the handler the impression that they are creating confidence and skill. The dog dashes to the end and picks up the bumper with increasing speed and attitude. The handler starts feeling more confident that their dog is finally catching on to how to do a blind. Tension is reduced. The dog is wagging its tail and the handler is happy. Success in building confidence is assumed.

Reality:
The reality is that running multiple times to the same spot and/or to a visible marker, decreases confidence for cold blinds. The dog is not learning a handling partnership with the handler for blind success, but only going to a rewarding known destination. When the handler moves to a new location for a cold blind, the dog totally looses confidence as they no longer know where they are going. Popping and hesitancy occur rather than an enthusiastic line.In the old days when blinds were not more than 30 or 40 yards, and the concept of a progressive yard program to teach skills had not evolved, perhaps repeating and marked destinations was productive. Dogs did not have to be handled more than once, if that, on the way to a blind. Today blinds are long and complex. Factors such as water cheats, terrain, wind, and poison birds come into play. To be successful on a blind today involved often many handles and is much more complicated. The key for success is a trusting partnership between the handler and dog --- rather than the dog thinking it knows where to go.


I hope this helps.

Cheers

Dennis

[Kevin Hannah]

Great post Dennis! I love this forum,and I'm taking it all in.

Mental note"retrievers online subsciption"

Best money you will spend:nice work:

[Misty Marsh]

Are you saying that FT dogs in general cannot handle a master hunter set up? Please see above post! I'm not making the sweeping generalization that all FT dogs can't perfrom a master tests becuase I've seen a couple do it very well, but in my experience (what I've actually witnessed) the bulk of the FC's/AFC's have not been able to do it (1 for every 10 gets it done). Is this a result of talent or training, I'll side with training/exposure which brings me back to the original thread and that I feel establishing a balance with a young or older dog is important, and mixing in alittle HT flavour will not hurt even if your goal is the FT game. The main point that I was trying to make to Bryan. M (although controversial) was that becuase he is relatively new to the dog game and has not trained/handled a dog at a FT level is that maybe running a few HT's would be a good thing to consider for his, and his dogs experience. I tried to drive the point home that it would'nt hurt his long term FT goals by making my personal observations about FT dogs only exposed to the FT game and thier resulting performances. I run FT's also, so be 100% honest for a second and think about all the dogs at a weekend open who would have benifitted from some early exposure to some HT type of training when it comes to line control, honouring, and short exciting birds?:worms: I persoanly believe that if we all had the same type of dogs that we could just develope one refined way to train a dog, but the fact is that we do not all have the same high rolling dogs with the same marking abilities etc. so sometimes methods have to be adapted to the dogs abilities and temperments, thus what makes a great trainer which is the ability to read his/her dog and adapt training methods to progress. I agree with alot of what has been said in this thread, and I have made my own sweeping generalizations in it, but I also feel that making the generalized statement that running memory blinds, (blinds to known destinations) pattern blinds, or re-running blinds is counterproductive to a dog out of transition to be a generalization. I personally will re-run a complex blind (not back to back but later in the day), and will come back to run one of the many complex memory blinds that I have established in my many different training grounds over the year as I feel that with my (non-super charged dog) it builds a "go as sent" confidence. Again when done in a "balenced" training program with a lot of new cold blinds also, I have not seen it do any harm, but rather result in a dog that will go confidently when the hand goes down becuase it trusts that the chicken will be there?

[Retrievers ONLINE]

I agree with alot of what has been said in this thread, and I have made my own sweeping generalizations in it, but I also feel that making the generalized statement that running memory blinds, (blinds to known destinations) pattern blinds, or re-running blinds is counterproductive to a dog out of transition to be a generalization. I personally will re-run a complex blind (not back to back but later in the day), and will come back to run one of the many complex memory blinds that I have established in my many different training grounds over the year as I feel that with my (non-super charged dog) it builds a "go as sent" confidence.

If you by chance might be referring to what I said earlier about repeating blinds, then you misunderstood me. In my Retrievers ONLINE article which I referenced I clearly describe a bunch of situations where repeating is beneficial to a dog. I don't know your "real" name so i can't be sure you subscribe to RO but it seems highly unlikely that you do-otherwise we wouldn't be having these misunderstandings. Those who have read my article will know what I mean! Please beg, borrow steal my article and read on! For example, I do agree with what you said in your last two sentences above. Those statements are very different than taking a dog past transition but with no confidence and returning to his 3-legged pattern blind field to try to instill confidence.

This internet stuff is simply too cursory to be clear, I fear.

BTW, I still disagree that only 1 in 10 FC dogs can do MH-If you have truly seen this you'd better look at some other circuits!

Cheers

Dennis

PS
I see it's even colder in MB than ON! Ugh!

[Greg]

Thanks for the great reply Retrievers ONLINE. That makes sense to me. I haven't subscribed but would like to. Also would it be possible to get a copy of the issue that has this article in it?

[Bryan.M]

Thanks for the great reply Retrievers ONLINE. That makes sense to me. I haven't subscribed but would like to. Also would it be possible to get a copy of the issue that has this article in it?
Greg,you can get back issues from 98 till present.I'm getting the works!

http://www.retrieversonline.com/ Regards Bryan.