Don't close the site!

[Ontdon]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/Ontdon/BrowningEllieandAnna007.jpg


I heard they want to shut this down . Not a good idea. Upland folks need a way to communicate too. Here's a pic of NAVHDA Pr I 204 Super V Browning trying to blend in with the retrieving folks.

[eden beardsall]

I am going to show my ignorance but I have always wondered what is the the difference between a German Wirehaired Pointer and a Drahthaar . John Mann from the Windsor area always referred to his dogs as Drahthaars but they looked like Wirehaired pointers to me. what is the difference?

[Huntmaster]

Thats a beautiful German Wire Hair! :kewlpics:

[ChrisGSP]

I may be wrong but the Drath, is a line that comes for Europe Only. Drath owners a quite particular about that. Wire hairs are the North american version of the Drath. Not the same blood lines not the same name. I believe it is an insult to call the NA version a Drath because the breading of them in Europe serious i think'

Just my 2cts

correct me if I'm wrong.

Chris

[PPinQC]

A Deutsche Drahthaar and the German Wirehaired Pointer share the same history. Many people and clubs deem them to be the same breed.

A Deutsche Drahthaar is a breed that can only come from a breeder associated with the German club Verein Deutsche Drahthaar. This club follows a series of strict regulations and tests that determine whether a given dog is found fit for breeding. The dog is tested against a standard for hunting situations, breed confirmation and absence of various genetic defects in order to maintain a very high level of consistency in the breed.

All German Wirehaired Pointers (I think this is a safe comment) come from Drahthaars. However, at some point in their history, the breeding practice followed by the German club was broken. Once it's broken, no offspring can ever be allowed back in.

[ChrisGSP]

Thanks for the info, I wasn't that far off, Just didn't have all the details..

makes sense to me

Chris

[eden beardsall]

THANKS for clearing that up. whatever the name they are handsome dogs.

[ChrisGSP]

Alot of people refer to them as the Ugly dogs... LOL

[just chessies]

Alot of people refer to them as the Ugly dogs... LOL Beauty is in the eye of the beholder it all comes down to the crunch when a dog do,s beautiful work :cool__1:

[PPinQC]

If you want to fill your freezer, hunt with an ugly dog.

[ChrisGSP]

I have no problem with the shaggy dogs, I myself have a shorthair, but love the look of any dog doing good bird work.. It's a thing of beauty!

[BdBHunts]

If you want to fill your freezer, hunt with an ugly dog.

That is because anything that looks at them dies of fright.:cheesy:

[BdBHunts]

If you want to fill your freezer, hunt with an ugly dog.

That is because anything that looks at them dies of fright.:cheesy:

Sorry, had to do that. Got to get rid of some frustration.

[BdBHunts]

Whoa! Double post, what happened there?

[Big Bird]

Then what is a Deutsch Kurzhaar???

[BdBHunts]

The next best thing to a Bourbonnais.:bf_new:

[Sharon]

Then what is a Deutsch Kurzhaar???

couldn't resist - a German Shorthair Pointer

[PPinQC]

A Drahthaar is to a GWP as a Kurzhaar is to a GSP. In my explanation of the difference between a DD and a GWP, just replace Drahthaar with Kurzhaar. Kurzhaar means Shorthair in German.

As soon as you replace any of these words with the word "Braque" all goes to shambles :D

[quackaddict2]

that's a fine looking pup

there another post in the upland section

that will put you over the top,don't say the quack ain't doin his part

seriously guys get out there and get all the pointer dudes over here it's a great forum,lets all remember to respect each others breeds and training methods[it's all good]i always enjoy your pics of dogs and upland hunts and get some pics and reporting out here about your events

i'll make a better effort to look in at your stuff and chime in:bigrin

[Big Bird]

Hey Quack... if it was not for this forum I would not know you from any of those other black monsters.... Just another guy with a lab.... Dock the tail to make it look like mine .... :icon1_lol:

[dan]

Drath owners a quite particular about that.

You got that right, I know of 1-2, great dogs though.

Is that the same breed where there are 5 tests invloved?
First is Retrieving for ducks, pointing, tracking a fox to a hay bail area with multiple entrances and exits and the dog must return the same way it enteres, the fouth test is tracking a deer, finding it, returning to the owner with the 'brindle' in mouth, returning the owner'handler ' to the deer in a direct line at heel, and I forget the fifth test.

Whats this about shutting down the upland forum? Im going to sponsor an ad here!!! It is a severely under used forum but it can get better I think


Dan

[BdBHunts]

Im going to sponsor an ad here!!!

That is an excellent idea.

[Bigshrimp]

Hi All, I'm here on BdBHunts request (from another K9 forum)!

Didn't even know this site existed:emmbarassed:

Anyways...happy I found it and able to support.

[quackaddict2]

Big Bird

i guess i gotta say yer one of the smarter pointer dudes

at least you got the color right:cool:

[RyanGSP]

A Drahthaar is to a GWP as a Kurzhaar is to a GSP. In my explanation of the difference between a DD and a GWP, just replace Drahthaar with Kurzhaar. Kurzhaar means Shorthair in German.

As soon as you replace any of these words with the word "Braque" all goes to shambles :D


To Consider the Drahthaar and Kurzhaar the same as a GWP or GSP is showing your lack of knowledge of the breeds.

The Germans have been line breeding and proving these dogs before they are bred not only in the field but in the ring and health wise for decades. You are getting a much better dog thats parents grandparents and so on have been proven before being bred. They must meet certain qualifications or else they are deemed unbreedable. Not only that but studs can only breed so many litters a year so everyone isnt going to for "whats in style" effect.

The AKC and CKC GSP and GWP have been so loosely bred there are almost 3 different breeds inside one. You have your big show dogs that are far to big to do any hard running required for hunting, you have your small Field Trial dogs that are half the size of a fox and you wouldnt dream of sending after a fox. Then you have they NAVHDA (versatile/hunting) dogs which are some what in the middle. These are the closest thing as to the DD and DK.

This is a huge can of worms and can bring on a big fight.

I agree lets keep this place open. Here is my half GSP half DK doing his versatile thing.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/Ryan_GSP/2007%20Hunting%20Season/100_2395.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/Ryan_GSP/2007%20Hunting%20Season/100_2323.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g79/Ryan_GSP/Diego/100_1528.jpg

His new trick is running down and killing Coyotes.:doh:

[PPinQC]

You should have read my prior post. Perhaps you would have realized that you and I are saying similar things.

If anybody is showing their lack of knowledge, it's you. "Linebreeding" is the furthest thing that the breeders, breed clubs and the JGHV are doing. The same would hold true here in North America for VDD GNA and VDD GC dogs. This is one of the reason that breedwardens exist in the breedclubs. To make sure that the breeders are adhering to the rules of the clubs. Also I would not compare a Breedshow to a ring competition.

It's only the ignorant that believe JGHV tested dogs are better. More consistent, yes; but better, no.

Dan - Yes you're right. The breed clubs decide which tests are required to certify the dog for breeding. The two natural ability like tests are the VJP (youth test) and HZP (advanced natural ability). The Utility test is called the VGP. In addition there are other more advanced tests that can be done but not required for breeding certification. Some of what your talking about is included in the HZP, but most is either VGP or beyond.

[RyanGSP]

Every breeder in Germany I have talked to in the last year has told me they line breed their dogs. I am sure there are those who dont and dont belive in it...once again another arguement.... but I have talked to alot if not most of the breeders in Germany in the past year and that is what most have told me.

[PPinQC]

Every breeder in Germany I have talked to in the last year has told me they line breed their dogs. I am sure there are those who dont and dont belive in it...once again another arguement.... but I have talked to alot if not most of the breeders in Germany in the past year and that is what most have told me.

Go look at the Ahnentafeln. I don't think you'll see much linebreeding going on. How do you find time to speak with so many breeders. Must be a heck of a phone bill. There are over 200 DK breeders in Germany.

[RyanGSP]

Ya tell me about phone bill is crazy but most of them were via email.

[Sharon]

We never have any arguments on UPLAND conference. Must be those foreigners. LOL ( Don't get mad, Just kidding.)

[BdBHunts]

I think Upland people are just too civilized, no forum brawls, no locked threads , nothing to get the members riled up .
Have a thread get out of hand once in a while - a few warnings from the mods will increase traffic - you know the whole squeaky wheel thing - you just have to be creative.

We are just following the advice given to us.:cheesy:

[dan]

A Drahthaar is to a GWP as a Kurzhaar is to a GSP. In my explanation of the difference between a DD and a GWP, just replace Drahthaar with Kurzhaar. Kurzhaar means Shorthair in German.

As soon as you replace any of these words with the word "Braque" all goes to shambles :D

so
draht is wire
Kurz is short

I know what haar is....:bigrin

[Kevin Hannah]

Go look at the Ahnentafeln. I don't think you'll see much linebreeding going on. How do you find time to speak with so many breeders. Must be a heck of a phone bill. There are over 200 DK breeders in Germany.


Ok I'll ask, why not?

Do you not think that "carefully" planned linebreeding will not improve the breed?

Just asking

Kevin

[PPinQC]

Ok I'll ask, why not?

Do you not think that "carefully" planned linebreeding will not improve the breed?

Just asking

Kevin

Not at all. Without extensive testing and certified breeding, linebreeding is the only way to get consistent results.

My problem with linebreeding is that many breeders that practice this don't make the tough decisions when an undesirable result comes out. In the wild, linebreeding occurs all the time. If there are genetic defaults because of it, nature is very rough. In dog breeding, many breeders turn their head when a genetic default comes and take the $ 1,000 or whatever their fee is despite it.

The reason you won't find it in German dogs is because the breed clubs don't allow it. They are very strict and have controls in place to determine what dog is bred to what dog. As a breeder, before breeding two dogs, you must get it approved by the club. For example, if you want to breed Tim vom Orsoyerhaus to Ona von den Hörst; both of which are German bred Pudelpointers certified for breeding, you must get this coupling approved and the litter registered PRIOR to any hanky panky. If not, the pups cannot be called Pudelpointers and will not allowed to be registered.

[dilly]

Here is Don's dog Browning
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a348/Ontdon/BrowningEllieandAnna007.jpg
Here is my little fella Kaiser
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff257/dilly541/IMG_0578.jpg

The apple didn't fall far from the tree in the looks department...I just hope Kaiser performs as well as Browning does. Can't wait to do his NA test this Spring!