Kick cages

[dan]

this has been dicussed on another forum..but who here uses them. I have had a few requests this year for them and some opinions against them.

I need some advive, I know for me I will be trying some to steady the dog to sit to flush.

Dan

[PPinQC]

I use remote cages. I think Dogtra makes the best product on the market. Personally, I wouldn't use a kick cage because it requires me to put more control on the dog as I approach the bird than I want to. I'd rather just let the dog work it out for himself. If he gets too close, the remote launchers give you the ability to launch the bird.

Also, when working on backing, for me, it makes the job much easier.

[dan]

what about using 2-3 kick cages in combination with the 1remote launcher?well spaced out of course. Im thinking it would be more affordable then buying 2-3 launchers

Dan

[verno]

I think I got the plans for kick cages from you in the past Dan. I would love to use launchers, but it's simply a matter of cost.

[RyanGSP]

Kick cages are a waste of time a properly planted bird wont move for a while so why use the cage? Save your money and buy some remote launchers.

[Big Bird]

I have found that the kick cages allow the bird to move too much. An example was a very steady dog was used on kick cages one day and after establishing point , walked in on every kick trap. This was not normal for the dog and the only conclusion we could attribute this behaviour to was the movement of the bird in the kick cages.. We further placed planted birds and ran the dog and had no issues with the dog attempting to move in. It just happened that the group we we training with happened to have a few kick cages and used them. I have since seen issues with other dogs when using them.

The kick cages may be a ecomical means for a trainer to hold birds stationary, but if I had my preference a manual release trap with a long string and knowledgable assistant would be a means at approximently the same cost. They can even out preform a electronic release. They are postive to release , no forgetting to turn the unit on, no dead batteries. just a long string. The manual unit are faster and positive than the any electrics I have used.

[verno]

Save your money and buy some remote launchers.
You must be young single and live in Alberta :greenwithenvy:

[Sharon]

2 remote launchers are essential for effective dog training - steady to flush, curb creeping, backing, staying tight after the bird flushes for trial work ( flush one bird after another), wild flushes, out of handler site work etc. etc.

Must haves. More important than an e-collar to me

[Vindalbakken]

I have 1200 dollars worth of remote releases that are non-functional. Pretty expensive manual release traps they are. I have found a way around the problem.

[Vindalbakken]

A very successful pro I know of has eliminated remote release traps from much of his training program preferring to use the velcro socks on his pigeons.

[Vindalbakken]

More important than an e-collar to me

Most things are more important than an e-collar - unless you are trash breaking.

[RyanGSP]

Most things are more important than an e-collar - unless you are trash breaking.

X2 I am with you on that one.

[Vindalbakken]

X2 I am with you on that one.

That said, I really wouldn't want to be without mine now.

[Vindalbakken]

About the kick cages, I have tried them and found that it was just as easy to put the birds to sleep for how long I needed them down. I never found that the dogs had problems finding the sleeping birds so I discounted the idea that moving birds put off more scent from the cages.

[RyanGSP]

I dont even own a ecollar and have never seen the need for one with either of my dogs. Maybe one day I will own a dog that needs one but for now I dont.

[Vindalbakken]

No dog NEEDS one.

[ChrisGSP]

depending on your training methods, An e-collar used PROPERLY can be a very valuable tool to work 1/4ING, whoa training, recall etc. as far a kick cages go, I purchased 2 dt launchers that have worked very well for me and are quite a bit cheaper than the dogtras. Invaluable to me as I train alone alot.

[PPinQC]

what about using 2-3 kick cages in combination with the 1remote launcher?well spaced out of course. Im thinking it would be more affordable then buying 2-3 launchers

Dan

I agree with Bigbird. Manual releases with longer cords would be more effective than the kick cages; especially if you have a helper with you.

[Misty Marsh]

If anyone's interested in flush boxes I sell them, I also carry the Dogtra models.
http://stores.mistymarsh.com/Categories.bok?category=Launchers%2FFlush+boxes

[Sharon]

I said if I could only have one, I'd chose a remote launcher over an e-collar. I use an e-collar for layering from the check cord to the distance control.

I like the remote launcher better than other methods that require a handler manually ( sock, kick pen, pull cord), releasing the bird because I can set up my launchers a quarter mile or more out there ( as long as I can see them ) and with me being no where around , launch that bird , the first time my dog takes a step after pointing. My dog learns , without me around, that if he moves, the bird is gone. This is invaluable training for trial work, when the dog will normally be pointing at least a half mile away.

P.S. People often forget that the dog has to be conditioned to the remote launcher.

[PPinQC]

I think they should come out with bird launchers activated by motion detectors. Once the dog goes on point, you "arm" the system. Then if he moves, the motion detector senses it and launches the bird. Heck, might was well connect it to the ecollar remote as well so they get stimulation at the same time as the bird is launched.

Next, we just need a little ecollar that would go around the birds neck. Once the dog goes on point; stays on point; bird is released; dog stays steady; the ecollar could shock the bird enough so it dies and falls to the ground.... you get where I'm going with this?

In the end, all we need is a chair and a beer to watch the fun.

[Sharon]

LOL LOL

Somebody has still got to walk out there a quartermile ( and back) and set them up , while the dog is resting in the truck. Any smart solutions for that?

[Big Bird]

I think they should come out with bird launchers activated by motion detectors. Once the dog goes on point, you "arm" the system. Then if he moves, the motion detector senses it and launches the bird. Heck, might was well connect it to the ecollar remote as well so they get stimulation at the same time as the bird is launched.

Next, we just need a little ecollar that would go around the birds neck. Once the dog goes on point; stays on point; bird is released; dog stays steady; the ecollar could shock the bird enough so it dies and falls to the ground.... you get where I'm going with this?

In the end, all we need is a chair and a beer to watch the fun.

A company called Horizon developed a release that worked of a sensor on the dogs collar. The sensor could be set for a predetermined radius around the release trap.. If the collar broke (assuming the dogs was attached) the radius the trap released. Sounded like an inovative idea! Horizon was bought out by Innotec and the "inno"vative idea was dropped.

I never seen them physically work, but those that had them noted there were issues, and this was the undoing.

[Big Bird]

LOL LOL

Somebody has still got to walk out there a quartermile ( and back) and set them up , while the dog is resting in the truck. Any smart solutions for that?

You get a rooky that whats to learn how to train dogs, and let them do the leg work...Sharon , I thought you were older and wiser....

[Sharon]

Ah,ah. That's why Ugo invites me down. LOL