Junior/Derby Stakes

[Drew Good]

Hey Gang,

I've been doing a little planning and like I have mentioned my pup will be running her first FT this june in Long Point in the puppy stake. Shortly after that she turns 1 so I have been looking into the Junior stake ( Derby in the US)

So I was wondering what the "typical" set up for the juniour stake is? I read over on the AKC that it usually consists of double marks and on a very rare occassion they may be retired ( but like I said, rare). It also said there is no blinds.

Is this what I can expect for a Junior stake in Canada?

Drew

[Labber]

Hey DD, maybe I can provide a little insight for you, amongst others, but be forwarned, I have a tendency to play devils advocate.

Puppy stakes are a good place to get your feet wet, meet like minded folks, and compete on a fairly level field with others who may be a little more experienced than you, or not. Puppy stakes aren't as common today as they used to be. One reason is that there are fewer new people coming into the game. The other reason though, is one that new people should sit up and pay attention too. Experienced trialers aren't usually as willing anymore to compete in alot of puppy and Junior dog stakes, with dogs that may develop bad habits or trial wiseness. (ie most dogs, even with experienced trainers).

Canadian Junior trials are similar to the US Derby. (No Fliers in Canada)
I prefer to see 2 sets of land doubles and 2 sets of water doubles in a stake. Sometimes things don't work out that way because of trial mechanics, cold water, or other factors that can get in the way. You may end up with a tough single with a double as 2 series. This is one good reason to make sure your dog is comfortable with at least 3 gunners in a field.

I would suggest that you do not enter Junior stakes until your dog has been thoroughly de-cheated. If you follow this advice, the earliest you might enter a junior after his puppy season would be late Sept. or the Mtn Valley trial in Oct. depending on where you are in your training schedule. There are a few, but not many dogs in Junior that are under 14 months. Most are 18 to 24 months. The reason is simple. Good trainers will not risk teching dogs to cheat in a trial environment. It is a common mistake of new people in FT's.

As I stated earlier Junior is a place for dogs to learn some serious bad habits, that can set you back and even prevent an all age career for a dog.
Consider running 1 per month or so, if the dog is ready.
I know what it is like to be itchin' to go. I had to take a lay off time when my kids were born. When I got back to it, I ran 6 Juniors, 1 derby and 3 or 4 quals in Blues' Junior year. This really isn't excessive, but with my standards not having been what they could have been, and the dog being such a high roller, I ended up having my hands full for some time after. (But I really can't say I have any regrets;))

So go have fun, but not at the expense of next year!

[Drew Good]

Thanks Labber :spoton: Thats just what I was lookin for.

The last thing I want to do is rush things and ruin the pup. If I wait until she is 18-24 months that puts us at the beginning of next season but that may not be bad idea. It gives us all this year to train her ( and I ) properly

Drew

[waterfowler65]

Thats why I only ran 1 JR trial last year. My goal was to run 3 but he wasnt ready until October. He was by the way 20 months old before I ran him.

Marc.....

[ducksoup]

Really good point about possibility of picking up bad habits running Juniors (Derbies) -- my BLM Maxx is in training with Dan DeVos and is just about 18 months old -- he has been in training with Gloria and Dan since last May (aside from coming home for most of October) -- he won't run any FTs until he's ready to run -- partly because problems can be created if he runs too soon -- I appreciate that Dan won't run a dog just because the owner wants the dog to run -- I speak from experience as I've been anxious to see Maxx run in FTs while down south -- I'm competitive by nature and had been out of the dogs for nearly 15 years before buying Maxx -- so I've wanted him to be running in some Derbies, especially since two of his littermates have run -- but Dan doesn't feel he's quite ready yet and so won't rush him, no matter how much I insist -- Maxx has a whole year of Juniors up here so there's plenty of time -- Maxx has been decheated etc. but is still somewhat immature at times -- he's training very well -- and has a great attitude -- and while running Junior is nice, the end result being aimed for is All Age -- so if and when he runs Junior is not the most important issue right now -- and I trust my pro

[Drew Good]

Thanks for all the info guys :spoton: . I may have been rushing things a little ( ok alot :emmbarassed: ).

Drew