FT Rules & Regs- 15.1 Trial Procedures-(meat & potatoes stuff)

[Labber]

This is a huge section of the rule book, so there's not much point in posting it all at once, if any discussion is to be had.
Lots of great information, on commonly asked questions by people new to field trials.



15.1 General Provisions
15.1.1 In order that trials may be conducted as uniformly as is
practical, standardization of objectives is essential and,
therefore, all judges, guns, contestants and officials who
have a part in conducting trials should be familiar with
and be governed by this rule book. In respect to trial
procedure, it presents guidance to judges, guns and
officials of the trial-giving club in the conduct of the trial,
so it will be well planned and smooth running, in
order that all dogs will be given adequate and relatively
equal opportunity to display their merits.
15.1.2 While natural conditions are subject to great variations
in different parts of Canada, the work expected
of the dogs should not be subject to similar wide variations.
In most instances, there should be little doubt
in anyone’s mind as to the type of work which constitutes
a perfect performance in a given test.
However, there is unlimited opportunity for an honest
difference of opinion on the severity of the penalty
to assess for any given infraction or deviation from
perfect work. Therefore, there must always be the
possibility of owners and handlers being confused
and dismayed because their dogs are dropped from
further competition, or not included in the placings
due to faults which other judges at other trials had
not severely penalized. However, this should be minimized,
since everyone has the right to know which
particular faults will be penalized severely, moderately,
or only to a minor degree. For clarification on
these points, see Classification of Faults.
15.1.3 The rule book has been formulated in such a manner
that the officials of a trial-giving club and the judges
have considerable latitude in the conduct of a trial.
This is desirable in order to allow for variations in
conditions that are peculiar to various parts of the
country, and also to grant judges unlimited opportunities
for ingenuity in planning tests.
15.1.4 An equal number of land and water tests shall be given
and shall receive consideration. Retrievers should
perform equally well on the land and in the water,
and should be thoroughly tested on both.
15.1.5 All field trial-giving clubs should clearly recognize
that Open, Limited or Special All-Age stakes are of
the first importance, and that all other stakes are of
relatively lesser importance and are requested to
adjust the timing of these stakes for a fair test. In the
apportionment of time, an Open, Limited or Special
All-Age stake must be given first consideration, the
Amateur All-Age, or Owner Handler Amateur All-
Age stakes merit next consideration, whereas both a
Junior and Qualifying stake requires less time.
The following factors also should be considered in
apportioning time:
(a) The number of entries in each of the various
stakes
(b) The quality and quantity of the facilities available
at the field trial grounds
(c) The weather
(d) The proximity of sites for various tests
(e) The ease of moving, and the time involved in
moving from one test-site to another (here one
must not forget about the importance of the
size of the gallery); and
(f) How lunch is to be handled (i.e. with or without
a break)
15.1.6 It is essential that all concerned with the conduct of
retriever field trials, the Field Trial Committee, marshals,
and judges, as well as the contestants, shall have
read and shall be conversant with the current editions of
the field trial rules and regulations. Such alone, would
do much in attaining that much desired greater uniformity
in both trial procedure and evaluation of work.
15.1.7 It is essential that all spectators attending a trial be
kept far enough from the line to enable the dog working
to clearly discern its handler and nothing shall be
done to distract a dog’s attention from his work. A
handler has the right to appeal to the judge if the
gallery is interfering with his work in any way and the
judges at their discretion may, if they believe the dog
has been interfered with, give him another test.
15.1.8 A minimum of 1-1/2 birds in fresh condition per dog
should be available for use in All-Age stakes and a
minimum of 1 bird in fresh condition in the Junior
and Qualifying stakes. There should be available, in
addition, sufficient birds in fresh condition to enable
each dog to receive clearly visible birds on water
retrieves.
15.1.9 Humane handling and care of game at a trial should
be rigidly practiced.
15.1.10 During at least 1 water test in all stakes, dogs should
be worked over artificial decoys, anchored separately.
A dog retrieving a decoy shall be eliminated.
15.1.11 Only pheasants, ducks or other game birds may be
used in all stakes. Pigeons and doves shall not be used.
15.1.12 A winger may be used in any stake.

Comments?

[Labber]

15.2 Responsibilities of the Field Trial
Committee
15.2.1 Field Trial Committees shall be responsible for the
enforcement of all rules and regulations relating to
field trials and must obtain a copy of the current
CKC rules and regulations for reference.
15.2.2 Field Trial Committees may make such regulations
or additional rules for the government of their field
trials as necessary, provided such regulations or additional
rules do not conflict with any rule of the CKC.
Such regulations or additional rules shall be printed
in the premium list or entry form and violations
thereof shall be considered the same as violating the
rules and regulations of the CKC.
15.2.3 The trial-giving club must provide an efficient organization
to conduct the mechanics of the trial. To
minimize delay in starting stakes and in starting various
tests in those stakes, the judges should have
previously planned and have instructed the Field Trial
Committee about the location of the next test and
the requirements of equipment such as game, guns,
boats and decoys.
15.2.4 Apportioning time to the various stakes is the first
and most important consideration in planning the
mechanics of a trial. It is the joint responsibility of the
judges and the Field Trial Committee.The premium
list schedules the days of the trial and the hour when
the trial will start. Those are fixed, definite factors in
planning the mechanics. A Field Trial Committee
could expedite its job considerably if in the entry
form it was recorded that the first stake will start at a
specified hour on the first day of the trial and that
each succeeding stake will follow at the conclusion of
the stake which preceded it, rather than stating the
specific hour at which any stake will start.
15.2.5 The chair of the Field Trial Committee shall at all
times during the trial wear a distinctive, coloured ribbon
printed to indicate his office.
15.2.6 It shall be the duty of the Field Trial Committee to
investigate at once, any report that is made of alleged
unsportsmanlike conduct. Offenders may be
removed from competition in the stake, or from competition
at the trial, by the Field Trial Committee.
15.2.7 The decisions of the Field Trial Committee shall be
final and conclusive, and shall bind all parties subject
to the rules and regulations of the CKC.


These rule book posts aren't exactly on fire are they?:argue:

[captainjack]

Are these guidelines, recommendations or rules as at any field trial some of these are not followed. When was the last time the CKC sent a representative to a field trial to see that these guidelines,recommendations or rules are followed? What is the penalty if a field trial club has been found guilty of violating them? It would be a good idea for the field and show division of the CKC put on a working event and try to follow each of these rules.

Clubs do their best to put on events to the best of their ability, but unfortunately, with limited help, grounds and finances it becomes impossible to follow all of these rules - ie. marshalls - how many clubs select marshalls that are familiar with these rules? I would guess a couple of the bigger ones in Ontario ie. Pine Ridge, Long Point - others do the best they can and take the volunteers that they can get. 1 1/2 birds per entry - not likely!

I would agree that these are all very good recommendations, but perhaps it would be easier for everyone to attempt to follow if they were revised and many of these put under the section of recommendations - or perhaps the whole rule book should be called a book of recommendations for putting on a field trial. It could then contain one section on recommendations and three additional topics which would be - rules that will disqualify a field trial club, field trial participant, and or field trial dog. Enforce these rules with zero tolerance and let the club and judges make decisions on the rest according to their ability.

Why use such words as it is essential, must and shall? It makes one feel guilty when they (club or judge) can not follow the stated rule. Would it not be better to say that it is recommended?:stirpot:

[Labber]

Captain Jack,
I think you've answered very well, alot of the questions that you asked.
FT's are usually imperfect. That's to be accepted. It takes alot of background and experience to make them as trouble free as possible.
The rulebook is open for interpretation. Some things are more important than others. So we pick apart the important stuff.

One thing we can all do though,is read the rule books.

I put it to both hunt testers and field trialers to get an idea of just how many people at their next event are really familiar with their rule book.

I've read the rule book through and through a few times now, and still don't feel truly knowledgeable about it.
I think it matters.

[Labber]

It's the "War & Peace" part of section 15. If you print it, the tree huggers will have an issue with you!



15.3 Responsibilities of Judges
15.3.1 Guidelines
(a) All judges shall be thoroughly familiar with the
field trial rules and regulations.
(b) Judges should particularly note the basic principles
of a retriever trial previously set out in
these rules.
(c) Judging can never be precise; it is not an exact
science, merely an art, and simply because there
are so many shades of grey between black and
white. At the risk of over-simplification, it might
be stated that the primary purpose of a retriever
is to get the birds to hand as quickly as
possible in a pleasing, obedient manner and all
faults stem from a deviation from this. It is recommended
that a judge should have clearly in
mind, and for each stake, precisely what type of
performance he expects, since such work will
merit high rating in his records.Then he should
observe, and record, in what respects and to
what degree the performances by individual
dogs have either exceeded or fallen short of that
previously established par. Hence, when the
stake is completed the judges will arrive at their
final decision about placings on the basis of
which dog relatively, did better work than
another in each of the series. Therefore, much
of a judge’s responsibility is to determine how
much weight he shall give to certain types of
exceptional performance and how much penalty
to assess because of various individual faults.
15.3.2 Inspection of Field Trial Grounds
(a) It is very important that judges inspect the field
trial grounds with representatives of the Field
Trial Committee in advance of the scheduled
day for the trial to start, and seek their counsel
regarding any peculiarities of the grounds not
readily apparent. At that time, the judges should
elect and determine the nature of each test and
its location, preferably for the entire trial. On
set-up day, judges should always inspect the
routes to falls and blinds for unseen hazards.
15.3.3 Planning Tests
(a) The judges, with due regard to the recommendations
of the Field Trial Committee shall
determine the tests to be given in each series and
shall try to give all dogs similar tests in the same
series.The judges may discontinue any test before
it has been completed, provided that another test
is substituted.The performance of a dog in a test
which has been discontinued shall not be considered
for any purpose in the evaluation of the work
of that dog in the stake. The planning of tests is
the responsibility of the judges; it is also one of the
most important responsibilities. With good tests,
it is much easier to judge the quality of the performance
by various dogs than could be true with
tests which are so simple and so easy that most of
the dogs turn in almost perfect performances, or
with tests which are too difficult and time consuming;
apparently designed to produce many
failures or eliminations. Nevertheless, falls which
are long and out of gun range for the handler are
appropriate and proper. They can be justified on
the basis either of birds that fly a considerable distance
after having been shot, or of those shot by a
hunting companion. Ingenuity on the part of
judges should be encouraged, not only in planning
tests, but also in devising some which are
unusual and quite different from those customarily
used at field trials. However, all such unusual
tests should conform to the Basic Principles of
Retriever Trials as set out in Chapter 10 and they
should not require complicated instructions
about the desired method of completing the test.
(b) On marked retrieves a dog should be able to see
a bird in the air and as it falls, since its memory
can only be tested when it has seen the falls.
Factors to be considered in a marking test are:
(i) Gunners should be located so that they are
conspicuous and readily identifiable by the
dog
(ii) The background against which the bird is
thrown as well as the light conditions and
the height to which the bird is thrown
should also be carefully considered.
(iii) On falls which might be difficult to mark,
the gunners may be asked to shoot twice to
aid dogs in their marking.
(iv) Judges may request gunners to disappear
from sight after their bird is down, but care
should be taken that the retiring gunners do
not distract the dog, nor should gunners be
moved to a different location to deliberately
mislead the dogs in their marking.
(v) On marked retrieves the order in which birds
are to be retrieved shall not be specified by
the judges unless it is considered to be a test
of control (i.e. a handling test).
(vi) The handler may select the order in which
he directs the dog to retrieve the birds
provided such selection is accomplished
quickly and quietly. Excessive time or noise
in effecting such selection either at the time
of sending or while directing the dogs
attention to the gunners during the initial
set up may be penalized as excessive lining.
(c) On blind retrieves, wherever possible, the
judges should plan their test in such a way that
they take advantage of natural hazards; such as
islands, points of land, sand bars, ditches,
hedges, small bushes, adjacent heavy cover, and
rolling terrain. Despite such natural distractions,
it should be possible, at least in theory, for
a dog to find a well-planned blind retrieve on
the initial line from its handler. That it will do
so is highly improbable because of those natural
hazards, so it must be handled to the blind.
Nevertheless, the test should be planned so the
dog should be in sight continuously. A blind
retrieve is a test of control, and a dog which is
out-of-sight for a considerable period cannot be
said to be under control. Utilizing natural hazards should obviate the need for judges issuing
special instructions about the manner of completing
the blind retrieve, other than to get the
meat by the most direct route.
(d) When ordered to retrieve, the handler shall
direct his dog from any position designated by
the judges.
(e) Tests or retrieves which are not to be considered
by the judges at the final summing up
should not be held.
(f) Changing tests after a series has been started
should be avoided, if at all possible. One way of
avoiding such unsatisfactory tests, or of avoiding
unforeseen and unpredictable situations
which would vitiate an apparently proper and
sound test, is the practice of running a test dog
at the start of every series. A test dog is used by
many judges under conditions wherein they
may entertain doubts about the exact way in
which the test may actually go. Some believe
that use of a test dog really saves time; on occasions,
it may save embarrassment for judges.
15.3.4 Pre-Trial Decisions
(a) Before a trial, stake and each series is started,
the judges must reach certain decisions about
various details, and should consistently follow
these procedures.
(i) Instructions given to the marshal and the
gunners should be by agreement of the
judges which may vary from series to series.
(ii) Signaling for birds to be thrown: it is recommended
that each set of gunners be signaled
separately.This creates more uniform timing
between falls and prevents additional birds
being thrown if a fall is unsatisfactory to the
judge.The signaling judge should be careful
that neither his signaling nor the shadow of
it distracts either dog.”
(iii) Calling the dog’s number as a signal for the
handler to send his dog is proper. It is not
proper to call the dog’s name or the handler’s
name for this purpose. It makes for
greater uniformity, as a rule, if 1 judge is
responsible for all 3 of the foregoing duties
in each series, with the judges rotating or
taking turns at this duty in different series.
(b) Each judge should be at liberty to say “NO”,
and independently, if, in his opinion, any fall is
such, or any situation develops, that makes for
a relatively unfair test for the dog under judgment.
Under such conditions, the dog should
be picked up immediately and tested later on a
new set of birds, after waiting behind the line
until several dogs have been tested. Judges
should watch the dog being tested, and try to
determine whether it apparently saw and
marked each fall. It is proper to give the dog
another set of birds if it is unable to see birds
and mark the falls through no fault of its own,
but rather due to a poor flight of bird, unusual
light conditions, striking changes in the background,
or any other occurrence which make
for decidedly different conditions from those
under which previously competing dogs had
been tested in that series. On the other hand,
the dog should not be given a new set of birds
when failure to mark was of its own doing -
either through lack of attention, or because its
attention was frozen on another set of guns or a
previous fall.
(c) When on line, if working dogs creep forward or
jump forward before being sent, short of breaking,
the judges should agree whether they are to
be brought to heel before being sent to retrieve.
If so, handlers should be informed of this
requirement in advance, and the manner in
which they will be advised on line of its application
to them. Also, care should be exercised so
that this is enforced in such a manner that it does
not become grossly unfair for honouring dogs.
(d) In the minor stakes, where controlled breaks are
permissible, the judges should agree in advance
about the degree they will consider a controlled
break in contrast to the one which will eliminate
the dog from further competition. They should
also be in agreement about the severity of the
penalties to assess for various degrees of controlled
breaks.
(e) Drifting ducks can be a problem as they create
a lack of uniformity in the falls.The judges may
agree that they may waive delivery and judge a
dog up to the spot where the dog should have
found the drifting bird. Otherwise they should
offer the dog a rerun of the test on a new set of
birds (as provided for under section 15.3.6 (g)).
The judges may also agree that a rerun will only
be offered for a dog whose work up to the time
of reaching the area of the original fall would
justify further consideration by the judges. In
any case the judges should consider in advance
how they will deal with this situation.
(f) The encountering of wild birds, rabbits,
or other game by the working dog also presents a
problem, and sometimes creates great inequalities.
Dogs, particularly in All-Age stakes, should ignore
such distractions or be sufficiently under control
to be handled to the fall. Judges should decide, in
advance, how they will deal with such a problem,
and they may agree to pick up the dog and re-test
it at a later time, providing they feel such a distraction
was responsible for a faulty performance.
(g) For any of the reasons mentioned above, or any
other conditions that may arise which create
decidedly different conditions from other dogs,
the judges may pick up a dog and test it again, if
possible, allowing several dogs to run the test
before recalling the dog to be re-run.
(h) Every bird retrieved and delivered to the handler
should be inspected by one of the judges.
Failure to inspect retrieved birds must be catalogued
as carelessness, and as an undesirable
practice. It is unfair to all dogs that are being
tested, not alone in respect to the question of
hardmouth, but more particularly, since it may
furnish the explanation for a slow pick-up or
some other oddity in a dog’s performance. Any
unusual condition of a bird should be brought
to the attention of all the judges. If the same
birds are to be used again, those that are damaged
should be set aside and not re-used.
(i) Unless specifically provided herein, all decisions
affecting the conduct of the stake and the
judging of a dog’s performance shall be by consensus
of both or all judges in the stake
concerned and no one judge shall make or
communicate such decision without first ensuring
that there is such consensus.
15.3.5 Instructions to Handlers
(a) Instructions regarding the position handlers are
to take, the nature of the test, and any special
instructions about the desired method of completing
it, can be given to the handler as they
come to the line. If special instructions are to be
given, great care must be exercised so that each
handler receives the same instructions. Such
can be accomplished by summoning all handlers
to the line before the series is started, and
then announcing those special instructions to
the group, once and for all. If it is not possible
to assemble all handlers for such a single
announcement, the special instructions can be
written and given to the marshal, who in turn,
should show them to each handler before they
go on line.Whatever method the judges decide
to adopt, they should be certain that all handlers
receive identical instructions.
15.3.6 Procedures During Testing
(a) Judges should keep sufficiently detailed notes on
each dog’s performance to enable them to recall
it completely, or at least its outstanding features.
Each fault should be noted, even those that are
minor. Although the latter may not require that
the dog be penalized at that time, repetitions of
that fault or commission of various other faults,
in succeeding series, may cause the total of
faults to assume serious proportions.
(b) Judges shall at their discretion, determine the
number of dogs that shall be worked or kept on
line simultaneously. In at least one series in an
All-Age stake where championship points are
awards, every dog must be kept on line off leash
while another dog works. In all other stakes,
except Junior, every dog should be kept on line
while another dog works.
(c) When coming to line to be tested, the dog and
its handler should assume any positions directed
by the judges. In all regular official stakes, except
Junior, dogs should be brought to the line and
taken from the line off leash without collar, and
should be considered under judgment from the
time they are called to come to the line until
they have left the line and are back to all judges,
at which point the dog may be put on leash.
(d) In Junior and non-regular stakes dogs may be
brought to the line and taken from the line on
leash unless the judges specify otherwise. They
shall remain off leash and without collar while
under judgment.
(e) Unless otherwise instructed by the judges, no
dog should be sent to retrieve until its number
has been called by one of the judges.
(f) If, when a dog is ordered by the judge to
retrieve a fall, and another dog breaks for a fall
and interferes with the working dog to the
extent of causing it in any way to make a faulty
performance, the dog interfered with should be
considered as not having been tried and given a
chance for another performance.
(g) If there is an occurrence which makes for a relatively
unfair test for a dog, the judges shall
exercise their discretion in determining how to
form a judgment on the quality of work done by
the dog in the series notwithstanding the unfairness.
In forming such judgment the judges may
decide that it is necessary or unnecessary to rerun
the dog. If they decide the latter, they may
waive delivery to hand of the mark or blind in
which the unfairness occurred; if they decide the
former the dog shall be picked up immediately
and tested on a new set of birds, after waiting
behind the line until several other dogs have been
tested. The re-run of a mark or blind which was
not previously completed shall be scored by taking
into consideration the combined performance
of the dog prior to the point of unfairness in the
initial run and after the point of unfairness in the
re-run. If there is more than one re-run of that
mark or blind, the judges shall exercise their discretion
in determining how to score it fairly.The
re-run of a mark or blind which was previously
completed shall be scored on the first completion
and faults committed on such re-run shall be
ignored except that if the dog:
(i) Does not complete that portion in accordance
with the judge’s instructions for a
test; or
(ii) Commits any of the faults as outlined in
this section which justifies elimination from
a stake, the dog shall be penalized in the
same manner as the judges would penalize
it regardless of the re-run.
(h) A handler is not free to select marked falls in a
re-run in an order different from the order in
which they were selected in the initial run. If the
handler deliberately attempts to do so the dog
shall be eliminated from the stake.
15.3.7 Completion of Series
(a) At the end of the first series, and every series
thereafter, the judges will call back all dogs
which they wish to try further, and will cause
them to be run in additional series until the
stake is decided. To the extent that time permits,
judges should be generous in their
callbacks for additional series. No dog should
be eliminated from further competition unless
it is the consensus of the judges that it would be
impossible for the dog to place in the stake,
even though its work in all succeeding series
was perfect. For example, other things being
equal, a specific fault, such as failure to mark
the area of the fall, should merit the same
penalty in a late series as had been assessed for
it in an early series. Actually, the fault committed
in the first series may not justify
elimination, as there is no certainty at that time
that every dog may not commit an equally serious
fault before the stake is completed.
However, commission of that fault in the first
series alone, may conceivably justify elimination
before the last series is begun, simply because
there are several dogs in competition which
have not committed any faults and many others
whose faults were less serious. Since so little
additional testing is completed in order to complete
the stake, the judges would be justified in
concluding that such an error in the first series
alone, would preclude all probability of the dog
being placed in the stake.
15.3.8 Determining Placements
(a) Before arriving at their final placings in any
stake, the judges should make direct comparisons,
series for series, between all of their dogs
under consideration for those places. Such
comparisons permit each judge to be certain
that the dog placed first has given a relatively
better performance throughout the stake than
the second place dog. The fourth place dog
should be compared directly with all that are
unplaced, and on a similar basis.
(b) In general, scoring systems on each series are of
assistance for preliminary classification of the
performances by the various dogs still in competition.
They help immeasurably in arriving at
a prompt decision after the conc-lusion of each
series, in respect to which dog should be called
back for the next series. However, in the final
summation and analysis of the various performances,
a direct and detailed comparison of the
work done by one dog versus the work of another
may produce some different conclusions
from those suggested by the scores alone. Careful
comparisons are heavily recommended as
they are most likely to achieve the true purpose
of retriever field trials defined by the rule book
as a method to determine the relative merit of
retrievers in the field.
(c) No dog shall be given a place in a stake unless
the dog has completed all tests held for any dog
in such stake, except a test which has been discontinued.
(d) A judge’s decision shall be final in all cases
affecting the merits of the dogs. Full discretionary
authority is given to the judge to
withhold any, or all, awards for want of merit.
(e) No lower placement can be given unless all
higher placements have been awarded.
(f) Judges should be encouraged to award a Certificate
of Merit to those dogs which have completed
all series, and which show evidence of being welltrained
and thoroughly qualified retrievers.
(i) In stakes where a Certificate of Merit qualifies
a dog for a Limited All-Age stake and
makes him a starter eligible to make future
stakes carry championship points, such
awards should not be given unless the dog’s
work merits this recognition.
(ii) A Certificate of Merit is not to be awarded
if the judges have not seen fit to award 4
placements.

Comments anticipated in about 2 months

[Kevin Hannah]

A few thing catch my eye. I am assuming by some of the comments that there are very few or no field reps attending the events. This comment sounds very strange to me since in the HRC program there is almost always a field rep at each event. They actually have to fill out a report and submit it after the event to make sure the rules and guidelines are being followed. The report includes things like birds (#'s and quality), help at each stake, maps and signs to the testing grounds and other items like that. Not saying the way HRC does things is perfect just sharing my experience with different groups.

[Labber]

(c) On blind retrieves, wherever possible, the
judges should plan their test in such a way that
they take advantage of natural hazards; such as
islands, points of land, sand bars, ditches,
hedges, small bushes, adjacent heavy cover, and
rolling terrain. Despite such natural distractions,
it should be possible, at least in theory, for
a dog to find a well-planned blind retrieve on
the initial line from its handler.

So, remote cast sends on blinds shouldn't happen, but can.
What's your opinion on them?

the test should be planned so the
dog should be in sight continuously. A blind
retrieve is a test of control, and a dog which is
out-of-sight for a considerable period cannot be
said to be under control. Utilizing natural hazards
should obviate the need for judges issuing
special instructions about the manner of completing
the blind retrieve, other than to get the
meat by the most direct route.

One of the most common things seen at a trial is competitors
walking away after the test dog has run, trying to figure out the
expectations of the judges. Is a point of cover or land or a channel between two stumps a black & white pass/fail?
Should it be?

[Labber]

Despite the intense debate here, it's time to move on........

15.4 Responsibilities of Handlers
15.4.1 There should be no practicing or training on any part
of the field trial grounds from the start of the trial
until its conclusion. The throwing of a bumper by a
handler for the purpose of exercising his dog shall not
be deemed to be practicing or training.
15.4.2 After the Field Trial Committee and the judges have
selected field trial grounds, or at such earlier date as
the trial-giving club shall determine, no competing
dogs shall be trained or exercised in that part of the
grounds to be used for the trials.
15.4.3 The right to run a dog cannot be transferred except
where the handler has been eliminated from the trial
or when approved by the Field Trial Committee.
15.4.4 Dogs seeing handling test: All competing dogs must
be kept where they cannot see blind retrieves planted
and where they cannot see another dog working
on a blind retrieve in any series which they have not
completed. Members of the Field Trial Committee
should report violations of this section to the judges.
Violation of this section should be penalized by the
elimination of both the dog and handler from the
stake.
15.4.5 Dogs seeing marking test: Except in specific compliance
with judges’ instructions in a test where a dog is
required to honour before running, all competing
dogs should be kept where they can neither see the
falls for another dog, nor see another dog work in any
series which they have not completed. Violation of
this section should be penalized by elimination of
both the dog and handler from the stake. Members
of the Field Trial Committee should report violations
of this section to the judges.
15.4.6 During the period following the judge’s signal to
throw the first bird and until the dog’s number is
called, the handler of the working or honouring dog
should remain silent. Also, in all marking tests, during
such period, the handler’s hands should remain
quietly in close proximity to his body. A handler who
projects his hand during such a period, whether for
the purpose of assisting his dog to locate a fall or otherwise,
should be considered to have a threatening
gesture, and his dog penalized as outlined below.
15.4.7 No handler shall:
(a) Carry any exposed training equipment, except
whistles, to the line. In Junior stakes, when
allowed by the judge, a collar and/or leash may
be allowed.
(b) Use threatening gestures or any equipment to
aid in steadying or controlling a dog.
(c) Hold or intentionally touch a dog while under
judgement except as specifically provided for in
these rules for Junior stakes.
(d) Any violation of these provisions is sufficient
grounds to justify elimination from the stake. It is
a considerate gesture if the judges notify a handler
if a method of restraint might incur a penalty.
15.4.8 When on line, whether running or honouring, a
handler shall not place his dog or himself so that the
dog’s full vision of any bird as it falls is blocked.
15.4.9 In marking tests a dog whose handler gives the dog a
line in the direction of the fall, provided that such
lining is accomplished briskly and precisely, should
not by reason of such lining be outscored by a dog
not so lined.
(a) Even with marked birds, a handler may be able
to render great assistance to his dog by giving
the dog a line in the direction of the fall; however,
there is nothing the handler can do, short
of handling, to aid the dog in recognizing the
depth of the fall.
(b) Often a dog gives definite indication of memory,
and of its marking ability, at or after delivery
of the first bird by aligning itself toward, or by
looking eagerly in the exact direction of an
unretrieved fall; at times even leaving at once or
leaving on command, but without benefit of a
precise line to the fall given to it by the handler.
There is no invariable method by which the relative
merits of such perfect completions can be
judged: the dog trained to come to heel and to
be lined by the handler briskly and precisely,
and in the same manner for each and every
retrieve, including the first, cannot be penalized
for its work - not even relatively in comparison
with a more spontaneous type of performance.
(c) Conspicuously intensive lining of dogs to marked
falls is undesirable and may be penalized.
15.4.10 Walk-up test: A handler may, without penalty, give a
command to sit when the first bird is being thrown
on a walk up.
15.4.11 When a handler of a dog under judgment is asked for
any reason to pick up his dog, he is still under judgment
until he has left the line with his dog at heel in
accordance with the judges’ instructions.When a dog
is ordered by the judges to be picked up and run
again, the dog should return promptly to its handler.
15.4.12 In a handling situation, whether to a mark or a blind, a
dog that is allowed to hunt extensively for a bird after
handling has begun should be considered out of control.

Comments?

[rocko]

I like meat and potatoes....

[Labber]

Marshalling is one of my favorite ways to help out a trial.
It is like going to a free clinic, if you pay attention to the handlers on line.
You also get a close up view of dogs that you might not otherwise see work unless you are judging them.

15.5 Responsibilities of Marshals
15.5.1 The marshals of each stake are responsible to ensure
the stake runs smoothly.The marshal shall:
(a) Call the dogs to line.
(b) Announce to the judges the number of the dog
about to be tested.
(c) Enforce that all spectators attending a trial be
kept far enough from the line to enable the dog
working to clearly discern its handler.
(d) Call back to the line any dog which was picked
up and was to be re-tested. How long such a
dog shall wait behind the line before being retested
should be prearranged with the judges so
that the handler can be told when he is to run
again at the time he picks his dog up.
(e) Obtain the callbacks for the next series from the
judges, and announce them.

[Labber]

15.6 Responsibilities of Gunners
15.6.1 Dogs may be shot over by the gunners appointed by
the Field Trial Committee, or at the option of the
judges, by the handler.
15.6.2 Gunners are to remain quiet and only volunteer
information if:
(a) Requested to do so by the judges
(b) They believe their bird to be drifting seriously
(c) The dog retrieves a bird other than the one
thrown for it
(d) If there is a significant change in the cover,
which may not be apparent to the judges
15.6.3 Unless otherwise instructed, the gunners shall not
move their position after their bird is down.
15.6.4 Nothing should be thrown to encourage a dog to
enter the water or direct a dog to the fall.
15.6.5 In respect to the evaluation of dog work, the rule book
presents guidance to judges for uniform grading of
the penalties assessed for various faults.

Gunners are discouraged from smoking marijuana while a trial is under way.

[North of 7]

Scott. to tackle your one issue of a black or white pass or fail on a line to the blind.
It is all well and good that as a judge you think the dogs should keep to that perfect line because that is what we demand in training.
One has to remember that the field of dogs at hand set the standards of the test. That is why the ckc says you have to have a certain number of qualified all-age dogs for an all-age stake.
There are to many judges out there that set their standards before a dog even runs.
So to sum this up when I judge. I will never say what I am looking for because the field will tell me what is good.
A simple rule. he who uses the most lead in my pencil loses

Jim

[Labber]

Point well taken Jim.

This is the sort of thing that can be frustrating about field trials. The job that gets you a placing one weekend is the job that helps you to be thrown out the next.

[captainjack]

There are many aspects to a judging the blind and the line is one of them. But a judge should have expectations of what they are looking for in the line, but is it absolute?
Blinds should have boundaries and handlers should keep their dogs between these boundaries if they are to be successful. Seems some judges feel that the boundaries are the width of their finger which is nonesense - no offence.
One problem that I see is that too many blinds are one sided ie. the obstacle is to the one side of the blind, thus it becomes difficult to judge if the dog slides past or avoids the obstacle.
Unfortunately dogs have handlers and following Jim's logic, the handlers can dictate the line to the blind by not challenging the perceived line and avoid obstacles that are in the blind and thus Jim will use very little lead.
What do you do you then Jim? Remember in a field trial the judges are not looking for the dogs that lose, but the winner. Therefore challenge the preceived line, use your whistle and let the judges evaluate your performance.

[North of 7]

Peter Peter Peter
The point I was trying to make is what I would like to see and what the dogs do can be different. Let me ask you this. If you have a point on the line to a blind and 2 dogs hit the point and 8 dogs miss it should those 8 dogs get dropped or are you going to score them lower and this is not looking at the cast refusals the dogs gave before going on the point.
This thinking is way in Ont we have the biggest entry's and give out the least amount of ribbons.

Jim
PS See you tomrrow

[Retrievers ONLINE]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving instructions or telling the contestants what I am looking for. Example: “we’d like to see the dogs get on that point” or “we’d like to see the dogs go through that cover”. I don’t say “pick up your dog if he doesn’t get on the point!”. Yes it’s up to us to judge the relative performances of the dogs that run the blind but there’s nothing wrong with making it clear what you are looking for.

Yes I have seen Pro’s with several dogs set a lower standard than I want when instructions were not given. If it’s too low, yes I would drop them!

To further stir the pot, often a dog with more pencil is better. He might have gone directly to the fall but then had a good but long hunt. I’d score that dog over the one that took a big loopy disturb cover route perhaps even hunting elsewhere but in total less pencil. Plus, any dog with other faults such as barking, not stopping to several whistles, repeated cast refusals, even though less pencil, is likely not going to make it.

So there are no simple rules and silence isn’t always golden-You gotta judge them relative to the field-Which is what North of 7 said at the beginning but then complicated!

Cheers

Dennis

[North of 7]

Dennis if there is a point or cover on the way to the blind everyone knows that the best place to be is on that line so I don't see that the judges should have to point it out. If there is a problem that judges don't know what a straight line is then that is another problem
As far as the lead goes, it was to be kind of a joke. Sorry no one laughed

Jim

[Labber]

I laughed, and was going to come back with a "lead in your pencil" joke, but decided against it.
This is the sort of discussion I was hoping for.
It is helpful to all, I believe.

[krakadawn]

Lead in your pencil

Now we're really getting to the heart of the matter!!Ya really got them hooked Scott-training must have finished early for folks today. Most of you need to get packed for tomorrow,some of you need to remember your Judges Book as well.
Here's to 'Lead' in your pencil or where ever else you need it!

See you at PRRC.
Jim

[captainjack]

Dennis,

Just got back from training and I am not even running on this weekend.

Jim,

Make sure you and I discuss what we are looking for on the weekend before we start the blind. I would hate to get into this discussion after the fact.

Peter.

PS. I have a pencil sharpener just in case you need it. See you Friday.