Have you used a johnny house or recall pen?

[BdBHunts]

The idea of using liberated birds that are semi-wild for training is something that I have been considering. I have looked at the Covey Base Camp and am not interested in spending that much on something that could be a dud. Someone who has first hand experience with a johnny house or recall pen that could let me know their experience would be appreciated. I have most of the materials to build one and if it is a failure after building one then the it, or the material could be utilized for something else.

[Vindalbakken]

The biggest problem I had with the quail recall pen was the yard cats. Lacking something else to keep the mouse pops under control in the yard the cats are staying, but they quickly learned how to get tasty bird lunch. Otherwise it was nice to kick some birds out, scatter them, and work a couple of dogs and do it all again the next night.

[BdBHunts]

The predator issue was one thing that I was really interested in. The coyotes have been taking the feral cats, I have a cat that stays in the porch or barn, the cats are not that big of a concern. I have had raccoons, possums and coyotes around, the first two haven't been around as much, possibly because of the increased coyote population. The coyotes are the only ones that I have not shot lately. I am considering getting a livestock guardian for the two legged and four legged varmits that may show up here.

How well do the birds fly? Do they simulate wild birds by acting and flying like them?

[RyanGSP]

I would use chukar instead of quail of I were you. Chukar are stinkier and more hardy.

As for how well they fly it all depends on how much you fly them. The idea about the Johnny house is the birds have to fly from the bottom to the top but they need more exersize than that to fly really good. I would buy an automatic feeder that can last 2 or 3 days to keep them unfamilair with people. You will get more flighty spooky birds.

If you worried about varmints just make it so there is a door that can be closed over the entry hole. This way its only open when your birds are coming back.

[Jixer]

I have done the Johnny house thing with mixed results. Predation is the biggest problem. They need to be locked up at night to keep them safe. Something always seems to find a way to get at the birds if you are using a funnel and the door is open. I am guessing, probably something from the weasel family. I had the recall pen separated from the main house to at least keep the majority of the birds safe.
Also, the birds do need some training if they are pen birds. Seems to work better if at first you liberate the birds but don't work them with the dogs. Let them learn to recall without being pushed far from the pen.

[Vindalbakken]

As Jixer says they need to be trained to recall. Do not let all your birds out at once. Do not force them away from the pen when first released. I have made those mistakes. They need to learn how to find their way back in.

The Johnny house I had was secure against larger predators - the wire was heavy enough to keep out cats, skunks, fox and coyote. The weasel is the only predator that could access the pen through the funnel but we don't have a lot of them around here and the yard cats do a pretty good job of keeping the few that show up killed off. The cats got the birds when they tried to return to the house though.

They need lots of practice flying to get strong, so after they were conditioned to return I would chase them about to get them flying. You could see the strength of the flights increase. I still had aggressive and bird crazy dogs that could catch them so I went to CC work for those dogs. But then I have had dogs that have caught wild adult sharptail. The problems with them not flying well were outweighed by the random natural plants giving the young dogs incentive in their search pattern. When it came time to teach manners on birds I still moved to pigeons in the yard because of the greater control I had over the situation - with the quail you were never sure when and where the dogs would come in contact. I did use them on adult dogs for transition from the yard to the field.

Before buying quail I tried to get Chukar to recall to a pen but was never very successful with them recalling at all.

[Parabuteo]

I am not experienced with calling back chucker or quail but I used homing pigeons when my pup was young. They always bet us home, even when we were hours away. They are relativity cheep, can out fly most predators and will bred easily. Another bonus is you can train any where, after a while it became a game to see if we could loose the birds.(it was almost as fun as the training)
Regarding pens, they are easy to build and designs are available all over the internet, just find one that suits your needs. (I have pics of some of the ones that I have made if you want to see them)

[dan]

Ugo knows a lot about Johnny houses, he builds them. I once lost 50 quail in one night to a cat, and Im right in Ottawa. Was not expecting a cat to get in the shed they were in. I was pretty pissed that day.
Dan

[RyanGSP]

I am not experienced with calling back chucker or quail but I used homing pigeons when my pup was young. They always bet us home, even when we were hours away. They are relativity cheep, can out fly most predators and will bred easily. Another bonus is you can train any where, after a while it became a game to see if we could loose the birds.(it was almost as fun as the training)
Regarding pens, they are easy to build and designs are available all over the internet, just find one that suits your needs. (I have pics of some of the ones that I have made if you want to see them)

This is very true and pigeons are great but by the sounds of it he is trying to recreate wild birds and the flush of a covey. You cant do this with pigeons.

[BdBHunts]

by the sounds of it he is trying to recreate wild birds and the flush of a covey.

You are primarily correct with that. My male didn't like to point pigeons when he was young and I know of a GSP and GWP that didn't as well. I want to use birds in training that the dogs will come across in tests and hunting. He seems to not mind pointing them now, there were several that used to roost above the training table and I would flush them to work on his steadiness. I will use pigeons as well for yard work and knuckling down on the dogs. A friend uses pigeons exclusively for training and that way if there is a harsh correction the dog doesn't associate it with gamebirds.

[RyanGSP]

Hey BDB I found a recall pen you make out of those 55 gallon blue barrels. Holds 12 quail. It would be cheap to make and easy to see if you want to expand. If not your out 30 bucks instead of 100's

[seadog]

BDB , a bud is starting up the same thing . He plans on bringing in some giant type of quail that are kick ass fliers . After hes up and running I will see if I can bring a guest with me , He also has some type of duck that is not a homer , know what I mean . We tried a few last year and let me tell you they get the hell out of Dodge .

[Big Bird]

Johnny house may work if you condition the quail, but if you are inclined to train the dog after a day shift the birds usually do not make it back to house prior to dark. The birds that are out are appetizers for varmits!

Get a pigeon coop, pigeons they are legal to shoot, you can get homers that return to the coop.

[BdBHunts]

Ryan I don't know if you read my post before it was deleted but could you post a pic or send it to me.


The idea about the Johnny house is the birds have to fly from the bottom to the top but they need more exersize than that to fly really good.


They need lots of practice flying to get strong,

I remember a lady that I bought quail from years ago that had taken part of the upper barn and enclosed it and released the birds in there. Lots of room for the birds to strengthen there wings. I read an article about a guy that had a big pen and used a JRT to get the birds flying to strengthen the wings. I don't think I want to get that involved.


but if you are inclined to train the dog after a day shift the birds usually do not make it back to house prior to dark.

Jack I get off work earlier now then I used to and I could have my assistant release the birds when she gets home from school or when she is finished with school in the summer. She works cheap, a Webkinz or a few more chickens for her and every thing is good.:spoton: She will be running the pup again at our test along with Peter's daughter and their male pup.


The birds that are out are appetizers for varmits!

I may have to get seadog and some DD guys to come try their dogs on a few in preparation for their test.:spoton: The old dog that I have would have made a good lurcher and taken care of the varmits, he had a few critters to his credit in his younger days. seadog it is almost time to take the patio furniture out.:darkbeer: I still have to contact your friend about a Jagd or whatever else he was using.

[RyanGSP]

BdB my apologies for taking so long.

http://uplandbirddog.com/dogcamp/barrel.jpg
The barrel JH (from Lou Gleber's summer camp) is a portable system for recall birds. The barrel size is 55 gallons. Various opening are cut in the barrel and covered with wire. This allows birds visual orientation of the environment. Two doors near the bottom (at back) and top of the barrel helps to catch and release birds. The two pvc pipes are for food and water.

http://uplandbirddog.com/dogcamp/barrel2.jpg
A view from underneath the barrel. Notice the funnel (bottom) for birds to reenter. The pvc pipe on the left is for food. Holes are drilled in the cover of the pipe and this allow birds access to food. The pipe on the right holds water. A the bottom of the cover is a push-in nipple. The nipple can be obtained from Farm Teck (1-800-327-6835). Drill a 3/8 inch hole in the cap and insert the nipple.
Notice that a board in a shape of a crescent moon holds the two pvc pipes. The board is at the level of the 'windows' and allow birds a roosting area. Idealy the barrel holds up tp 12 quails.

Here are some other designs.

http://www.uplandbirddog.com/dogcamp/jh.jpg
A variation of the standard JH design. The bottom is roughly a 4 ft by 4 ft with a door. The top portion is sloped for rain and screened so birds can view the surrounding areas. The screen also allows sun light in to help birds stay healthy and dry.

http://www.uplandbirddog.com/dogcamp/water.jpg
This JH is square in shape and appropimately 6 ft high. The top portion (same level as the screen) has several 2 inch by 2 inch boards running the witdth of the JH. This provides an area for birds to roost and for them to look out. The screen is made of wielding wire to help prevent predators from getting in. Notice the 5 gallon water on top of the roof and hose leading into the JH.

http://www.uplandbirddog.com/dogcamp/water2.jpg
A look inside a JH, note the water delivering device. Clean water is critical and essential for healthy birds. The blue container is a float valve connected to a pvc pipe with drinking nipples. This provides water to the birds. Other water devices may also be used, provided the water is kept clean.

[BdBHunts]

Thanks Ryan

[Sharon]

If you can get your hands on anyold American Field mags they are full of good tips on making a recall pen work well. Unfortunately 've never had enough land to try it out.