Will Winter ever end??

[Lpgar]

Well...Just back from 2 weeks in Alabama...Winter was supposed to be gone on My return but alas...still snow and Ice at Long Point.

Real eye opener of a trip. Karma ran her first derby down there. Amazing stuff!!!! Didn't know Jr. Dogs could be capable of such complex retrieves. My congrats went out to Rita Jones with a first and 3rd with 2 Wonderful animals that could swim bye a station after a 200yrd diagonal entry with a wind pushing them to the bank and keep swimming for 180yrds past the station directly to their birds. Wonderful stuff to watch.

Gar

[Labber]

Gar,
Of the Derby dogs that could do this work, were any younger than 18 mths?

[Pekisko]

Didn't know Jr. Dogs could be capable of such complex retrieves.
Gar

I'm not so sure they should be either. Junior/Derby is supposed to focus on natual abilities vs. trained abilities. A swim-by the gunner in a stiff crosswind is definitely a trained ability. My opinion would be that although this would be considered a tough Derby, it's not necessarily a good test. Would rather see bird placement that showcases good marking dogs as opposed to dogs that can swim.

Sharon

P.S. Of course, the caveat is that there is always the situation where the Derby judges are given the least interesting water and then the only thing they can do to separate dogs is a technical test.

[ducksoup]

I know that Junior was much simpler years ago than what I saw last year -- but then we're training for tougher tests than we used to -- the training is more advanced sooner it seems -- and we're breeding dogs that can do that type of work sooner (for the most part) -- but I know my Maxx had better luck closer to his second birthday though (we picked up all the chickens at Mountain Valley but no ribbon -- then the next week we won Junior at Bancroft, a couple of days before his second birthday; several littermates also did well at that FT) -- I believe sometimes we rush our dogs too fast -- trying to make FCs before they turn 2 -- that some dogs mature slower (particularly males) and might do better in FTs if we took more time with them -- and that's also why some choose not to even run Juniors (not as important as Open All Age is)

[Lpgar]

Scott

The winner was 23.5 Months old(34 US derby Points).... I think 2nd was 22 months..... 3rd was just 18 months...

Karma at 14 Months was the youngest Dog in the Derby and made it till that bird pretty much perfectly. Just way over her level of training for sure.

The rest of the birds of the Trial had some elements of trainability testing (cheating factor) but they had to be Marked to be found.

The judges had a huge quandery as 4 of the Dogs had pretty much identical judging sheets going into the 4th. And.....4 of the Dogs did the test very Pretty ( a couple had hunted behind other guns of the trial). No misunderstanding of the Trial....no disappointments...Just a learning experiance for sure.

Gar

[captainjack]

I often wonder what are natural abilities in today's trials? Please list these to me so I know what to set up in the 4th series of a junior with a good number of dogs still in contention. Surely, marking takes precedence but dogs do have to know how to get to marks that they have clearly seen. Does not a hard swim past areas that the dog can bail out on, show courage / perserverance to get the bird?
Just my thoughts .... I do believe Gar was talking about the 4th test.
Peter

Gar, visit Langton as spring has sprung here. I don't know if the original thread was to tick off the people who have not been able to go south or to complain about our weather. Guarantee that we will be in water next weekend!

[Lpgar]

Peter

It was more of a disappointment in the fact that everything was still frozen on April fools day. But....I will definately visit Langton this weekend to see Your newly arrived Robins.

Indeed I was talking about the toughest 4th series I have ever witnessed in a Derby. You are totally correct....the Dog had to Mark the bird and want to get there in those conditions. The test was fair.....the could see both birds down. They needed courage and Memory to get there. In the case of this trial the Judges were generous with the callbacks to the 4th....9 of 21 back. Some of which had visited the back side of a couple of birds with hunts. The concept of this particular 4th required training elements to get the birds straight....but they were more than retrieveable if they marked them and had the courage to make the right decissions on basic rules.

Nothing wrong with a tough 4th (or even 1st) series as long as it is fair. Let the Dogs see the birds fall and try to get there. Really depends on what the conditions are and your available water to what You can do. Just no tricks....Make sure they can see them.... Then You can fairly test them and find your winner and placings.

Gar

[Kevin Hannah]

FINALLY....................fields are starting to melt off and today I see the pond in the back yard has open water in one corner.

Can see the light at the end of the tunnel now:nice work:

[jiggy]

I don't wanna be a show off...but this is training a couple days ago. Notice the wet dog...neener neener. Gotta love southern alberta.

:-)

[captainjack]

Jiggy, I don't want to be a sh..disturber, but it must be Alberta because I don't see any water!:worms:
Come to Ontario where water means water!:worms: Sorry Jiggy, but I had to stir the pot on that one.
But, today was 60degrees at Long Point and we did a "water" mark with all the dogs. (30 yard land, 75 yards water and about 100 yards land) and then blew them out with a 200 yard land mark.

Peter.

PS. The forum has been too quiet for quite awhile thought that I might get a rise out of some of my Western friends!

[North of 7]

you people are lucky because I got out today for the first time and it was cold and windy and I could see some snow.
Jim

[nimkii]

Ran yesterday and today. Still a little white stuff around. Just waiting for the hard water to to turn wet. I need to get swimby done with my pooch.

[jiggy]

Peter.
Hey...water melts fast when it is 2 inches deep dude! :-)

[captainjack]

Jim, you got your nerve! You have been south dog training and golfing and you come back and call us lucky! I hope you get snow up to your neck and it stays until the Pine Ridge weekend and then it is 80 degrees and sunny so we can enjoy our judging assignment together. Until then let the cold winds blow!
Peter

PS. 62 degrees and sunny at Long Point. Time for another water single!