How would you deal with this......

[rocko]

My pup is 7 months old now. From 8 weeks (since I got him), he has always been a slightly more aggressive dog than others (ie. biting, nipping etc.). We did our best to stop that aggressive behaviour as per the breeders instruction. When he turned 4 months, he mellowed out ALOT and started to become a well behaved pup.
But now.....since a few days ago, he has become twice as aggressive. If you point your finger at him and say "NO!", he chomps his teeth at you and barks. Also, now.....if he is chewing on his rawhide bone, and you go to take it away from him, he growls and barrs his teeth at you. If I give him a smack accross his mouth...it just gets him even more fired up and he growls and barks more.

How do I stop this?

[franklauzon]

That's a tough one for sure... I've been lucky enough that my pup has been a dream... All I can see with that kind of behavior is to show him who is boss. Personally if my dog becaume cross with me, she'd get it, and good...

Don't think a High-6 will help in this situation, I think this is more of a direct simulation type think... Also mak sure you're wearing leather gloves...

I really wish I could be more helpful, but lack experience in this matter. Maybe look online at Schutzhund sites, since they're more likely to deal with aggressivity issues.

[AD18]

By the sounds of it you have a dominance issue and you need to fix it right now. The dog's winning. It is only going to escalate. There are various methods you can use to establish this dominance, but which one you use depends on your tempermant and style. Alot of the books talked about in other posts have sections on this. Robert Milner's book has one, there is Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer show and books), and others I'm sure. Quickly find one that fits your style and do it or go see a local dog trainer in your area. The longer you wait the harder it will be to break. It may be difficult for some to post advice since it may offend some shall we say. You can PM me if you like.

[franklauzon]

You could always try the alpha roll, i guess the premise is when he tries to show dominance, roll him on his back and sit on him till he submits.. Watch your extremities...

[sterregold]

First rule out any medical concerns that might be causing such a pronouced resurgence of this behaviour. Of course it could just be teenage hormones as well--a case of a boy dog testing his limits.
if it appears to be non-medical, you need to intervene now while he is still small enough for you to exert physical control without getting into a major battle. Wait four months and he will be just that much bigger and stronger.
Basically, any time he tests you, the message has to be--"I don't think so buddy. I'm the boss, you're the dog" Uppity behaviour must not be tolerated. Every time he gets his way by threatening he is learning that threatening behaviour WORKS and it can escalate.
Pick up all toys. He gets them only at your pleasure and under your supervision. Have two and trade them out every 10 minutes by asking him for the one he has, and offering him the other. He'll learn that giving up his goodies can have a good outcome that way.
Control his food. For now, he has to do obedience to get his kibble. It will take more time for you to dole it out a couple of pieces at a time as he performs sits and downs but it sends a definite message--you control the food supply, which makes you rank higher than him, and he's got to keep you happy if he wants that resource.
Keep him in his "doggy" place. No couch or bed privileges. No crawling itno your lap. it's cute and endearing in a puppy, but with a growing dog who seems to think that his whims are more important than your word it is sending the wrong message--he is on your level, and deciding what is appropriate when he does this. Disallow it.
Be careful with physical intervention. Striking the dog isn't "language" that they understand. Dogs don't smack one another! Yes it is an aversive, but it could also be upping the ante as you are already seeing in his response. This is not to say you should ignore it, though. I'd make him drag a long tab so that you have a safe way to grab him. Give your biggest, gruffest, loudest, scariest NO!, haul him up by the tab, and give a firm command to sit. Redirect the behaviour into something controlled by you. If, a very big IF, you feel safe in physically grabbing him, I've been known to haul a dog off its front feet while giving them a holler lecture to the tune of "Who the he** do you think you are....etc" so that they really know who the biggest, scariest dog is. That said, I would only do this with a dog with whom I was absolutely confident I could physically control, and that would not react by attempting to bite me in earnest. I'd also sign him up for an obedience class (not a fun, puppy class) with a really experienced instructor. I think John Menzies still has classes in the Hamilton area--he's been around for ages, so might be one to consider. I also know someone here in Kitchener who is very good. Avoid the PetSmart weekend-certified positive-positive-positive types.
Also, get him out training as much as you can--a tired dog is easier to manage!!!

[Anna Scott]

You need to establish that he is low man on the totem pole. If he has a bone or a bowl of food, anything reach down and take it. If he shows possessivness over the object grab him by the cheeks or the skin at the side of his neck and give him a good shake.You can sometime use the alpha role along with this. Role him on his back and strattle him, hold him down till he quits fighting you. Only let him up on your terms. How is he a taking a down command. If he won't lay down for you put his (choke) collar and leash on, give the down command and if he won't go down step on the leash very close to the collar so he has no choice but to lay down. He will fight you, my girl stood on her head , screamed and wiggled but eventually got the message and down she went. Release when the dog is laying quietly.
Somewhere along the line your dog has got the idea he can be boss. If you have children this can lead to problems.

[rocko]

Thank you very much for your responses!! I will give these all a try. My biggest concern was definitely the kids issue......I don't have any, but if he snapped at my nephew and niece, I would feel horrible.

I guess I will have to start laying down the law a little harder!!

Thanks again,

[rocko]

What do you mean by:

"First rule out any medical concerns that might be causing such a pronouced resurgence of this behaviour."

Are you referring to Phyiscal or Mental....or both?

[sterregold]

What do you mean by:

"First rule out any medical concerns that might be causing such a pronouced resurgence of this behaviour."

Are you referring to Phyiscal or Mental....or both?

I was meaning more physical. Aggressive behaviour can emerge if a dog is physically out of sorts--esp. if thyroid levels are off, for one. But since he is otherwise an alert active puppy, you wouldn't normally be seeing those kinds of problems at this age. And given his age I really would be willing to bet that it is developmental--he's reached an age where he's feeling like a bit of a "man", rather like a hormonally challenged 16 year old:omg: , and testing you out.
So for now, lay down the law at home. Make him assume those subordinate positions, and control the resources. And when you go to your vet for the spring heartworm visit, mention the behaviour and they should do a close exam to see if any of his vitals are out of whack.

[rocko]

Well....I really am at the end the road here. I'm not sure what its going to take to get this dog to listen to me and behave properly.
Tonight he started to act up again, barring his teeth, snappy towards me and barking. So I grabbed him by the scruff and gave him a good shake and hollered NO and made him sit!! As soon as I let go, he was right back doing the same thing. So, I did the same thing again, and he was right back at it. So after the third time, I ended up just putting him in the kennel for 5 minutes to mellow out. That didn't really work either......

Sometimes I think this dog has a demon in him........:cry_1:

[Labber]

Is this dog being playful?
Is he challenging you to catch or chase him, pretending to be a big threatening guy, snapping his teeth, barking and hackles up, like he would with another dog?

Or is he being nasty or fearful, and/or threatening, like if you did catch him, he would want to hurt you?

There is a big difference.

[luvmylabs]

Not the best way to end that session. What you are saying is that he won that round. If you decide to put him in his place, DO NOT GIVE UP until he is there. You kind of retired the field when you put him in his kennel. By putting him away, you just kind of avoided the problem for the moment. He might have felt that he won that round. Whenever he challanges you, you have to come out the winner. Otherwise, it will only get worse. Everyone will tell you " Don't give a command unless you can enforce it" This is the same. If you are not going to stick with it and make him submit, you are causing more harm than good. Every time he gets away with this behavior, he will be worse the next time and it will take longer to correct it. there are some good suggestions on here. Just don't give up until he submits.

Anne

[rocko]

Is this dog being playful?
Is he challenging you to catch or chase him, pretending to be a big threatening guy, snapping his teeth, barking and hackles up, like he would with another dog?

Or is he being nasty or fearful, and/or threatening, like if you did catch him, he would want to hurt you?

There is a big difference.

When I catch him, he hackles up, barks and snaps his teeth at me. I don't feel threatened at all....but my feeling is....if he did it with a little kid, it would scare the crap out of the kid. He's never out right bit me, he just makes the motion towards me like he is gonna (snapping)......sometimes his teeth might craze my leg or my hand.....but he's never actually chomped down on me.

[rocko]

Not the best way to end that session. What you are saying is that he won that round. If you decide to put him in his place, DO NOT GIVE UP until he is there. You kind of retired the field when you put him in his kennel. By putting him away, you just kind of avoided the problem for the moment. He might have felt that he won that round. Whenever he challanges you, you have to come out the winner. Otherwise, it will only get worse. Everyone will tell you " Don't give a command unless you can enforce it" This is the same. If you are not going to stick with it and make him submit, you are causing more harm than good. Every time he gets away with this behavior, he will be worse the next time and it will take longer to correct it. there are some good suggestions on here. Just don't give up until he submits.

Anne

The reason, I put him in his kennel was because that was the vets suggestion for me too do. I honestly feel that, for me to make him submit.....I would be there all day shaking the hell out of him.....but I guess thats what I am gonna have to do...........:boxing:

[AD18]

Sounds like you got a knot headed, alpha dominant fella on your hands. Agree with the above, you lost round one. Shaking by the scruff of the neck didn't work, next, scruff of the neck, on his side, pinned to the floor until he gives up. If you have to pin him for 5 minutes so be it. Don't let him up until he gives up. If he gets snarly when he gets back up, right back down. Ding, ding, round 2 starting, you gotta win this one fella:fencing:

[Labber]

Rocko, You haven't answered the questions I put to you.
Is it serious nasty aggression, or aggressive playfulness that you are getting from him.
You may have a serious issue, or no issue at all.

[North of 7]

One thing I would like to know before advice is given is what breed of dog are we working with?

[rocko]

Well.....that is the thing. This is the first dog I have owned this young before. So, I'm not sure 100% wether its nasty aggressive or playful aggressive.....but whatever it is, its not appropriate. I don't feel threatend in anyway, but I really want to nip this in the butt ASAP.

For example, if he is doing something wrong (ie. eating the couch) and I say NO! and point my finger, he'll get up, snap his teeth, barr his teeth and bark.....

[rocko]

7 Month old yellow lab

[Labber]

I really doubt that a 7 month old Lab puppy is showing nasty aggression.
Sounds like this is a play thing for him. If that is the case, this is no big deal.
He should be able to turn it on when you want to wrestle with him, and you can turn it off by teaching it that play time is over, time to relax.
Also, my pups, when wrestling, will grab my arms or clothing if I'm sparring with them, but I teach them the extent of acceptable aggressive playing, and when it's done it's done.
This age is one that demands that puppies and children should'nt be left alone unsupervised. Both need to be taught about the parameters of behavior here, by an adult.

I think you are overly concerned about a minor little issue. Don't make a big deal of it and it won't become a big deal, unless the dog has real aggresion problem. Then, with kids at home, it would be good-bye charlie anyway.

Just my opinion.

[Labber]

For example, if he is doing something wrong (ie. eating the couch) and I say NO! and point my finger, he'll get up, snap his teeth, barr his teeth and bark.....
This calls for a little hands on correction instead of verbal.

I really doubt that a 7 month old Lab puppy is showing nasty aggression.
Sounds like this is a play thing for him. If that is the case, this is no big deal.
He should be able to turn it on when you want to wrestle with him, and you can turn it off by teaching it that play time is over, time to relax.
Also, my pups, when wrestling, will grab my arms or clothing if I'm sparring with them, but I teach them the extent of acceptable aggressive playing, and when it's done it's done.
This age is one that demands that puppies and children should'nt be left alone unsupervised. Both need to be taught about the parameters of behavior here, by an adult.

I think you are overly concerned about a minor little issue. Don't make a big deal of it and it won't become a big deal, unless the dog has real aggresion problem. Then, with kids at home, it would be good-bye charlie anyway.

Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

[sterregold]

It doesn't sound like rough-housing play to me (although I would not do that with this dog any more if you have been doing so already.) Even if he is trying to play that way--it's not appropriate, especially if he's going to be around kids. That said, it seems the behaviour emerges when he doesn't get his way--pure dominance threatening. As others have said, you need to outlast him--it's just like a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum that way. If you give in first you've just taught him that the human will give up after X time, and now you've got to do X+Yminutes more. Don't leave it a a scruff shake, a no and an immediate sit. Get his front feet off the ground and read him the riot act (Biggest scariest drill sergeant dressing down the biggest screwup recruit in the platoon-style)until he stops resisting you. He ought to quit struggling, and try to look away from your face to signal to you that he is submitting. Then let him go, with a command to sit. If he starts up again, do it again. You HAVE to end with YOU winning. Your way or no way at all. As suggested I'd make him do the down stay most often as well for feeding, etc--it is a more submissive posture than sitting. He has to work for everything he gets from you.
This is an all to common power struggle with a young male--your success will not likely be instantaneous since he has been running things a bit already. With my now 3 year old boy, it happened when he was about 15 months old and decided that he didn't need to wait to be sent on a retrieve. It took two of us to hold him back on the line, a number of denied retrieves if he attempted to break at all, some drill sergeant "come-to-Jaysus" sessions in the blind when he tried to drag his way out to retrieve someone else's bird, and finally my literally sitting on him in the holding blind for two weeks to get the message across.
Work at it. Exercise him to the point of exhaustion so he doesn't have the strength to resist for too long--a walk around the block won't do it. Be calm in your thinking even while acting like the angriest you've every been, and be consistent. He'll get the message--eventually.

[rocko]

"it's just like a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum" --- That is exactly how he is acting!!

Its funny how you mention this: "it happened when he was about 15 months old and decided that he didn't need to wait to be sent on a retrieve."

Because the last few times I have brought him out, he has taken off after the retrieve before been sent, ignoring everything........which has almost never happened before.

We have never rough housed or played tug-o-war with this dog from day one.

Well, the bottom line is I'm going to have to outlast this dog until he submits completely. Thank you all for your time and responses!! I will keep you up to date on my progress.

[rocko]

Ok....so, Friday night he started to act up again when I pointed my finger at him and said "NO!" when he was attacking a lamp plug.

he turned and snapped his teeth at me and barked, so I layed down the law as suggested by some of you guys (picked him up by the scruff, command NO!, gave him a shake....if he still was barring his teeth when I had him by the scruff, then I would put him on his side until he was done squirming).

I did this for 50 minutes straight!! It sounded like I was giving an exorcism.....!! But finally after the last time I let him up, he just laid there, walked out of the room, got a drink of water and went and laid on his bed. :fencing:

Then Saturday, same thing...but this time, only 15 minutes until he gave up!! Hopefully I am making progress with this and not doing more damage than good!

[Drew Good]

Good job Rocko !! By the sounds of things you are slowly winning

Drew

[franklauzon]

You think that was an exorcism, wait till Force Fetch... Hope you got a big stereo, or old neighbors that don't hear too well! ;)

[AD18]

ADDA BOY ROCKO........you won round 2 and 3!!!!! Keep at it and you'll win. Sounds like you are going to have to keep an eye on him, he will probably challenge you every once in a while. Way to go, it's working!!!!!!

[rocko]

Thanks guys....couldn't have done it with out ya!! :boxing: