More EIC Results

[flatlands]

Just got these back today!

Flatlands Sledgehammer QAA EIC Clear
(FTCH Carronade's Hammertime MH X Basic's Honest Holly Hooker QAA MH)

Flatlands Locked N Loaded QAA EIC Clear
(FC AFC Skybusters Rapid Fire X Flatlands Frisky Business QAA)

Connie

[Wayne Dibbley]

That's awesome Connie!

Wayne

[HarryWilliams]

Thanks for getting your dogs tested. HPW

[cumming]

aftch/ftch Kayte of Southgate Normal

Plkington,s Last Pick Normal

Bill

[Wildcard]

Hi Everyone

I just had Boss tested for EIC and, unfortunately, he is a carrier. My vet said, "Well, I guess you're not going to breed him" but since so many FT dogs are carriers, because of their untested ancestry, as a potential stud dog owner, I feel that I would be maintaining my own integrity if I informed potential breeders of his status and let them decide. Bill Cumming suggested that, once we knew about dispasia in the old days that eventually it got worked out of the lab lines. Perhaps if we are careful but don't just breed to untalented "clears", this too shall pass.

Jill

[Lenore]

Jerryru's Hunters Drake EIC CLEAR , CNM CLEAR, PIV
He also passed his OFA elbows and hips, plus his eyes. Phewww... kind of like hoping your kid gets into a good college!


Sorry to hear that Wildcard. I know that when I got Drakes results back, I received some papers explaining what the diagnosis meant. The graph helped me out quite a bit, I read the stuff but couldn't really make head or tails.

[Retrievers ONLINE]

Hi Everyone

I just had Boss tested for EIC and, unfortunately, he is a carrier. My vet said, "Well, I guess you're not going to breed him" but since so many FT dogs are carriers, because of their untested ancestry, as a potential stud dog owner, I feel that I would be maintaining my own integrity if I informed potential breeders of his status and let them decide. Bill Cumming suggested that, once we knew about dispasia in the old days that eventually it got worked out of the lab lines. Perhaps if we are careful but don't just breed to untalented "clears", this too shall pass.

Jill

Jill

Does your vet know that EIC is an autosomal recessive? Why would a vet say what she/he did if they did?
BTW It won't just "pass" and it has nothing to do with talent!- we just need to breed selectively and responsibly.

[Wildcard]

I don't know what you mean about my vet. He did NOT think Boss should be bred because there is a chance of some of the pups being affected. Why wouldn't he say that?

Jill

[Retrievers ONLINE]

I don't know what you mean about my vet. He did NOT think Boss should be bred because there is a chance of some of the pups being affected. Why wouldn't he say that?

Jill

Because Vets are supposed to know fundamental genetics and the mode of inheritance of a disease that they are DNA testing for.

If Boss is bred to a clear bitch there is ZERO chance of having affected pups!!!

If bred to a carrier bitch the odds are 25% affcted, 50% carrier and 25% clear.
Both Clear and Carrier dogs are free of the afflictions of the disease.

[krakadawn]

Jill,
Time to give your Vet some feedback-Dennis has given you the facts.
If he advocates this direction he is definitely uneducated and uninformed but I'm sure there are many others.
As a side note to this I contacted CKC asking if future articles on CNM and EIC were in the cards-they have no idea what I was talking about-even worse did not seem to care!
Jim

[Lenore]

OK after reading what DD wrote and what krakadawn just wrote it now makes no sense to me what so ever. I thought that if either dog was a carrier then you had a 25% (one parent is clear), 50% or 100% if both are carriers or affected? How come it is so different if the stud or bitch is a carrier? I am definitaly missing something. Crap, now I am going to have to dig those papers back out.

Can anyone help? I'll re-read my papers but......

[Tim]

As a side note to this I contacted CKC asking if future articles on CNM and EIC were in the cards-they have no idea what I was talking about-even worse did not seem to care!
Jim

That is truly a sad state of affairs if the "governing body" is ignorant to the current testing available.

[Lenore]

Here is what my paper say's maybe some one can make heads or tails.

Chances of EIC affected (E/E) puppy being born from parents of known genotypes.

"For Example, breeding an E/N sire to an N/N dam can only produce puppies that are E/N or N/N. On the other hand, breeding an E/N sire to an E/E dam gives a 50% chance that the puppy will have EIC, since puppies can either be E/N or E/E. All puppies from mating 2 E/E parents will be E/E, and thus susceptible to EIC". " "E" means the mutant form of EIC and "N" to mean the normal gene." This was taken from the report I got when I got Drakes results back from University of Minnesota.

There are 3 types of EIC: clear, carrier and affected. I could not find the definitions for these types in the web site, but if anyone is interested later I can type the info in.

I guess any more info go check out the EIC site and look at the "frequently asked questions" part.

Now that I made that clear as mud. Does anyone else get it?

[Wildcard]

Well, thanks, Guys! I learned something new. I thought those were the percentages when he was bred to another carrier. I will, indeed, let him know. It was kind of confusing for me, but it sure shouldn't have been for him! Thanks for the info.

Jill

[krakadawn]

Jill
Just to confirm for others as well:
-carrier bred to clear=no pups affected byEIC but about 50% will be carriers
-carrier to carrier=50%carriers,25% clear,25% will be affected by EIC
-carrier to affected=50% will be carriers, 50% will be affected by EIC
-clear to affected=all pups will be carriers but none will actually have EIC.

Lenore,
There are not 3 types of EIC-there is only EIC. I think you meant that but we need to remember as already said EIC is inherited as an autosomal recessive trait and that "clear and carrier' status are not EIC.

I have an excellent Vet who understands this very well-he would never suggest that only 'clear' dogs be bred. You have received some good information-which will allow you to breed responsibly. Let's not be in a hurry to write out of the gene pool anything that is not clear.That being said not bad if you're Number 1 and 'clear'.
Jim

[captainjack]

Jim, I would think that if you contacted the editor of the CKC magazine that they might be interested in publishing an article on EIC and EIC testing. They are always looking for volunteers to present current information on dog health concerns for the readers. I would expect that it would be an eye opener for show breeders and puppy purchasers as much of the public are unaware of EIC.
I know Judy did an article on nationals, Dennis did (or does) articles on top 10dogs and I did a book review in the past. Any volunteers?

Peter.

[flatlands]

I also think we would be doing a service if we make sure our vets are informed. When I arranged for my 1st dogs' bloodwork, I took copies of all the relevant info, as well as the whole protocol for bloodwork & mailing to the US, to the vet beforehand. I also referred them to the EIC website.

My vets are terrific & remembered "something in vet school" about EIC, & had in fact just had a dog in that matched the symptoms, but they were pleased to have all the info handy: they are already seeing this in pets.

As far as breeding, rumors still fly (many well-founded, but still rumors) about which big-name studs are carriers, but if we eliminated carriers (& their progeny) from our breeding programs, we'd have one mess of an inbred group of mutants, & the talent pool would go into the toilet. Maybe a bit of hyperbole, but not really....


Connie

[North of 7]

Here is an excerpt from the U. of Minnesota website on EIC

Lastly, and very importantly, we do not recommend selecting dogs for breeding based solely
on their both being N/N for the DNM1 gene. Such a drastic strategy, although more quickly
eliminating the possibility of producing E/E genotypes and EIC affected dogs, also has the
undesired result of loosing many of the outstanding exercise and performance traits expected
of many lines of Labrador Retrievers. A better approach would enable the continued use of
some of the many excellent E/N and E/E dogs by mating them to N/N dogs. This would
produce litters without EIC and a choice of dogs to progressively decrease the frequency of the
E form of the DNM1 gene by future matings to N/N dogs.

This may help. N/N is clear
E/N is carrier
E/E is affected

[Lenore]

Thanks Jim!! I was too tired from typing the other info to add that, but I had wanted too.

Krakadawn: I know there isn't 3 types of EIC, but there are 3 different categories. "Clear means your dog doesn't have any mutant genes, carrier means your dog is a carrier of the mutation associated with EIC (ie, one normal gene and one mutant), and affected means your dog has 2 copies of the mutated gene and therefore highly susceptible to eposides of EIC." Again taken from the University of Minnesota papers that I recieved.

Flatlands: I too took the paperwork to my vet with all the info and forms. My vet then went on the Univ. website himself, called the Univ. and asked more question. My vet is now up-to-date and is very grateful for the info.

[Wildcard]

I spoke with my vet again because I highly respect him and he is, himself, a dog breeder, and also breeds thoroughbreds. He says he didn't mean that i shouldn't breed Boss. What he was referring to is making sure that everyone does the genetic testing before breeding so that they aren't breeding carrier to carrier, and of course, certainly not breeding to affected dogs. He said he was concerned that the FT game resolve this problem as soon as possible as it is a mirror image of what happened in the equine industry, especially to quarter horses, who had a HYPP problem (not the same problem but similar in that the best horses had it and by the time they found out it was a recessive gene, and began testing for it, everyone had it.) The guys who wanted to win would keep breeding anyway because all the best horses had it. As a result, it took the horse industry 15 years to get together on this and stop ruining the breed. He says that now they have to designate on their papers whether or not they have this gene. When it first surfaced genetically, they didn't just breed clear to clear, but they have moved in that direction now because no one can now sell their horses if they are even carriers. He just wanted to make sure that we push towards never breeding a carrier to a carrier. He also thinks we need to make the vet industry aware of how prevalent this is because dogs that go to pet homes will not necessarily be tested and could produce more affected dogs.

So, although most vets understand, Dennis, about recessive genes, he says most are not aware of the prevalence of EIC in Labs these days and an article or two should help to inform them.

Jill

[Drew Good]

I think an article would be a great idea too. I was at the vets today and mentioned EIC and they had no idea about it.

Drew

[Tim]

Just got a call from the vet..

HRCH UH Sinnaeves Maverick Hunter.... Clear
( GRHRCH UH Mitimat Ace in the Whole x HRCH Vince's Jumpin Jax Jazz )

[Lenore]

Congratulations!!!

[Labber]

I'm more than a little happy to report.........

AFTCH Mjolnir Bluebill of Allanport----EIC Clear

Flatlands Bayduck of Allanport---EIC Clear


:bf_new:

[Drew Good]

Thats good news Scott !! :spoton:

Drew

[flatlands]

Scott-- As I,m checking in from the sunny south, great news about bothyour dogs! Connie

[LET'M RUN]

OK.. It is time to get Chevy tested for EIC and CNM... I'm hopping for the best, I would llike to stud him out. After all the reading I have done... I'm still a little skeptick about the dawg pepole out there. God knows we have all put some quailty time into our dogs and we like to brag when they are on the top of their game. So my thoughts on the testing are: are WE all on the same playing field or are we like the Olympics. The deeper your pockets the more chance there might be away around the test. I hope I'm wrong but, there is a lot of money to the ones that are clear and I have heard of people saying that "the parents of my dog are clear so why should I check my dawg"....I hope I'm wrong but if it was up to me ALL dogs should be tested if you plan to breed OR put titles of honor on them.:worms:

Just my two cents boys and girls... It is up to all of use to make the breed stronger for years to come.Now we have these test my next dog will be tested before coming home.

Tony

[AD18]

I had my yellow dog tested yesterday for my own piece of mind. I know for sure his father is a carrier, via Lean Mac, so felt it was the responsible thing to do since he has been bred once and others are showing interest in him as well. Since both the CNM and EIC tests are genetic there is no real way to wrangle around the test. It's in the DNA Tony. My vet did show a small amount of ignorance about it, but part of that was based on the fact that an accurate, for sure test has only come out in the last year. Dependant on how the tests come back will definetly set the rules for any further breeding activity. If he is a carrier I will expect/demand the female to be clear. If he is clear nothing less than a carrier or better on the female side. There is far too many carrier dogs to eliminate out of the breeding stock to go clear to clear in my opinion, same as CNM. The "Working Retriever Central" web page has an excellent article on the disease and the breeding affects.

http://www.working-retriever.com/library/taylor.html

and

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vdl/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/home.html

[Kevin Hannah]

The results are so you can make informed and logical breeding choices.

[LET'M RUN]

[QUOTE=AD18;27696] Since both the CNM and EIC tests are genetic there is no real way to wrangle around the test. It's in the DNA Tony.


Than why do they ask from the Vet. I quote,part 2 from the CNM e-form

I declare that:
1) I do not own the dog being sampled
2) I am not financially involved with the dog being sampled

Remember a field trail champ or national dog is even worth more money now if it is a clear dog. So I just hope the dog world is not like the rest of world... corrupted.

[AD18]

The vet testing is a way to make absolutely sure the dog being tested is the one the sample is from. The vet is supposed to check the tatoo or microchip of the dog and insure the sample is from that animal. You can submit the sample yourself, but the result codes will reflect you did it yourself. I did the cheek swabs for CNM and my result codes reflect that. There is a letter in the result code of the OFA database showing owner took the testing sample. My EIC was done via blood sample taken by vet so result code will show vet did the check. Sort of a loophole for shady breeders I guess.

[Labber]

Shady breeders would eventually be found out.
It would ruin their reputation not just for the dog concerned, but for every dog they own there after.
I see no point in being less than up front.

[Kevin Hannah]

[QUOTE=AD18;27696] Since both the CNM and EIC tests are genetic there is no real way to wrangle around the test. It's in the DNA Tony.


Than why do they ask from the Vet. I quote,part 2 from the CNM e-form

I declare that:
1) I do not own the dog being sampled
2) I am not financially involved with the dog being sampled

Remember a field trail champ or national dog is even worth more money now if it is a clear dog. So I just hope the dog world is not like the rest of world... corrupted.

They ask for it so the declaration is coming from a Vet, who is obligated by his medical license to be truthfull and honest that the sample is from the dog he says it is. They can verify the sample is taken from the dog that matches the micro chip number.

I believe (I could be wrong) that if you dog has been DNA profiled then you could technically collect a swab sample yourself.

There would be little point in trying to obtaion a false clear result, it would bit you in the ass pretty quick.

[Debbie C]

I've had two of my dogs tested for EIC. Riley is a carrier, no signs at all, and is clear for CNM. Pyper is clear for EIC, but not tested for CNM.

I have the kit for the CNM for Ambr, (need to wait till the 27 before doing it though, as I think they are on vacation...) And I have all athe paperwork to do the EIC for Ambr, but need those special swabs before doing it. I had all 3 dawgs to the vet on Friday for their shots, and had talked to the vet the day before about doing the swabs, providing I found any in town and he was totally unaware of what CNM or EIC were. However, when I got to my apt, the next morning, he had gone on line and read about both. I was impressed with that. didn't have the swabs, so gotta wait on that.

Anyone got them dang Q-tips handy. I am going to the city on Friday, so I'll look at the home drug stores, etc... I can order them on line, but not sure I need 100 of them.

have a good one.

I'll let you know how the results fair when they come back.

[lghare]

Wow thats good news Connie, scarey these days.
Also Oakridgertvr Going All the Way, QFTR (Teezer)
Is EIC CLEAR as well. Good news.
Lorraine

[AD18]

My vet did not have the sterile swabs nor the special tube to send them in so had to go the blood sample route. Had to pay additional courier charges for overnite shipment, but good news was got the results back sooner. Better yet, he came back clear.

[Debbie C]

found the proper swabs at the pharmacy in town...sent everything in and will post the results as soon as they come in.

[Drew Good]

Well I guess it is about time that I posted up some results.......

Flatlands Diesel Power Surge "Turbo"
CNM - Clear
EIC - Clear

Babyducks Miss Carbon Express "Mercedes"
CNM - Clear
EIC - Clear

[storm07]

Bline Belle's Autumn Gale
(FTCH Taylorslab Magic Trick CD MH(USA) x Classies Belle WCX)

EIC - Clear

[fjnichols]

I had Storm, (my youngest lab) tested for EIC and it came back clear. His Dam was an early participant in the development of the test and she came back positive the first time but was retested and was clear the second time around. Perhaps this is why they prefer blood samples now instead of the nose swabs used at first.
JIM

[Debbie C]

:clap2: Just got my EIC results back for Oakridgertvr Ambr of Lynnriver and my girl is........CLEAR!!!


More great news... I just got Ambr's CNM results and she is CLEAR!!!!
Now THAT folks, makes my day!!

Have a good one everybody.

Debbie

[LET'M RUN]

Very nice to hear Ambr is half way to being a clear dog, Debbie. I will know in about 3 weeks for Chevy's test to come back. Great news Debbie, take care.

[wilks kennels]

babyducks wings over the water (retiever labrador ) sire ftch carronade`s hammertime . dam`s babyducks shoot forthe stars . eic and cnm both clear

[LET'M RUN]

500 POINT DOG,HRCH UH OAKRIDGE RTVR CHEVY EXPRESS; E.I.C. AND C.N.M. CARRIER:thmdn:

[Kevin Hannah]

500 POINT DOG,HRCH UH OAKRIDGE RTVR CHEVY EXPRESS; E.I.C. AND C.N.M. CARRIER:thmdn:

That is unfortunate Tony but not the end of the world, you now know exactly what you can breed to.

[LET'M RUN]

For sure bud, it isn't the end... 1000 points and GRHRCH... here we come and if we meet that clear bitch, than I'll be more than proud to take a clear pup form Chevy.

[Kevin Hannah]

For sure bud, it isn't the end... 1000 points and GRHRCH here we come and if we meet that clear bitch, than I'll be more than proud to take clear pup form Chevy.

:nice work::nice work::nice work::nice work::nice work::nice work::nice work:

[mmillward]

Tony that's a great positive attidude!! I know you will find the right dog for Chevy and you have some awesome goals set for yourself in the interm.

We will have to find something else to argue about until 1:00am at GBHRC over a few beverages.

PS: My money is on Jeff and Dory to win the belt this weekend after seeing and hearing about your handling skills at Luther.:worms:

[3 black dogs]

Just got the results for the pups 3 males are clear and 3 are carrieres and the little girl is clear. see our add if interested.

Chris

[Baby Duck]

Babyducks Superlean Road Queen" Flirt" Clear

Mike

[franklauzon]

FC AFC Hawkeye's Candlewood Shadow X FTCH AFTCH Baypoint’s Star of Ladner Marsh breeding produced my girl that is CNM CLEAR, EIC CLEAR.