my dog blinks birds!!!

[ChrisGSP]

What would you do if this was your dog???

[Kevin Hannah]

Force Fetch! If already force fetched then you have the tools to correct a blinking dog.

Kevin

[Jixer]

Get him on lots of birds Chris. Take a step back and let him do it his way without any pressure. Sounds like he is worried about making a mistake.

[ChrisGSP]

I was thinking about using some cages with the pigions in them so they do not flush for awhile, until she has some more confidence. With not noise or distractions. Does that sound ok?

[Jixer]

Might help to work her with some other dogs too. Let her see them do it right and the results. Keep it happy! Definately sounds like she needs to build confidence. Ed said she was pointing first, so that is a good start.
Have you shot any birds for her?


Are you signed up for the Rick Smith seminar?

[ChrisGSP]

I haven't shot any birds for her yet because I'm not 100 % sure the gun is not part of the problem.
She seems to find the birds starts to point them the backs away.

[verno]

What happened between pointing and blinking birds? Like Jixer said I would go back to lots of birds and little pressure for a while and make it fun again. But you need to figure out what you think caused it so you don't do the same thing again.

[ChrisGSP]

I'm not sure what happened as she has never really pointed well, I haven't been a very good trainer in the past. I don't know if I created the problem or if it was there before. I'm going to stick with lots of birds and little pressure for a while. before I intoduce any guns. To see what she does.

Chris

[Jixer]

Have you done any "whoa" training with her? I'd be working on that at home away from birds. It will help you later during you bird work and help bring up her confidence because you can tell her what you want from her.

[Maverick]

You have been given some good advice. What I would so is go back to the beginning and start over.
Start with yard work and hear, if that is all in order, whoa and heel.
If she is young check the dog into some strong flying birds. flush the bird and let her chase them a bit to increase her drive for birds. Do this several times and build up her prey drive.
No pressure for a bit, just yard work and birds. When she is off chasing those birds and gets out a good ways fire a .22 crimp and watch for a reaction. If there is none fire it earlier next time until you are firing just after the bird flushes and getting no reaction. Move up to a bigger bang such as a .209 or 32, again letting her get out a ways before firing until no reaction.
Start checking her into the birds and then having a friend flush and no longer allow the chase until she understands to stand her birds. If you have been doing your yard work all along you will be able to tell her whoa as you go into flush.
I had a neibour bounce fireworks off my house when Dixie was just 8 months old and up to that point had been fine with the shot. I had to go all the way back to break her of the problem but we got it done and she is great today.
The neibour wont do it again either, of this I am sure.
Good luck with your dog. Maybe get out on some Saturday mornings to GoldCreek and get some of the folks there to give you a hand. Al and Ed are both great guys and know there way around dogs very well.

Mav......

[ChrisGSP]

I did some more work with her last night, I planted 6 birds in cages so they could not flush. I brought her way down wind of them and she found them with little help from me! When she got within 4-6m of them she pointed them perfectly( perfectly for me) When I tried to pull her off the birds, she was having none of that! Afterwards I carded a pigeon and planted that. She did the same thing but when I flushed the bird she dropped and looked rather scared. I think I'm going to hold off on the flushing birds for awhile and work her on non flushing birds on a check cord.
All and all I was very happy with the outcome see that she has hardly pointed bird before this.

Chris

[verno]

If its the sound of the pigeon flushing that is scaring your dog. Maybe you could try putting some quail out for her for a while. They arent as loud when they flush. They are $1.50 to $2 at the stouffville market, not sure if they are the same price out there. If you are using quail you will have to call the MNR for a permit I'm pretty sure. BigBird was kind enough to post all of the info about training permits in a thread. Or maybe Gold Creek will have some quail?

[Maverick]

I would not hold out on flushing for very long and pigeons are pretty quite taking off compared to game birds. The reason I would not hold off is that there is no reward for her point. Your dog does not get to see what she has pointed. I would flush every other bird for her and see how she reacts.
Have a friend help you so you can hold her while the bird flushed and then have the bird flushed.
Mav....


I did some more work with her last night, I planted 6 birds in cages so they could not flush. I brought her way down wind of them and she found them with little help from me! When she got within 4-6m of them she pointed them perfectly( perfectly for me) When I tried to pull her off the birds, she was having none of that! Afterwards I carded a pigeon and planted that. She did the same thing but when I flushed the bird she dropped and looked rather scared. I think I'm going to hold off on the flushing birds for awhile and work her on non flushing birds on a check cord.
All and all I was very happy with the outcome see that she has hardly pointed bird before this.

Chris

[ChrisGSP]

Thanks for the advice Mav, The reason I'm holding the flushing birds back is until yesterday I have never seen her trully point. She just started doing it. I'm not going to hold them back for long maybe 2-3 training sessions depending on how she handles it. Then when she's pointing strong, and I have more birds, I will start flushing them.

[Maverick]

Hi Chris,
You can card the birds so you can use them again. They don't have to fly off far to get the effect you are looking for.
You will have to let them go if she does not exibit a strong desire as chasing them may help to build her prey drive.
Good luck guy.

Mav......


Thanks for the advice Mav, The reason I'm holding the flushing birds back is until yesterday I have never seen her trully point. She just started doing it. I'm not going to hold them back for long maybe 2-3 training sessions depending on how she handles it. Then when she's pointing strong, and I have more birds, I will start flushing them.

[Huntingonthebrain]

What do you mean when you say "blinks birds". I am sure my dog is not doing this even though I don't know what you mean.. hehe.. simply because he is really interested in birds and just wants to go after them. Jixer can confirm this. A couple weeks back he found a bird and flushed it (bad thing for a pointer to do.. but he is young and relatively untrained at this point). So what does it mean to "blink birds"

[Maverick]

It means the dog scents the bird and may look in that direction but continues to run or walk right on by.

Mav....

[Jixer]

...basicly means that the dog will avoid birds instead of pointing them for you. For some reason, the dog does not consider finding birds to be a positive experience. Chris's dog does not completetly blink birds. She points them first.

[Big Bird]

After reading all the posts and again without seeing your dog I would add these comments:

I take it that your dog is still a pup.

It appears also that you are having a difficult time obtaining birds, and in doing this you are attempting to teach your dog to point , but restraining him from chasing because you are not releasing the birds. By restraining him from chasing you are not allowing him to build bird or prey desire. In addition you have him on a lead, and you are likely pulling him or healing him away from the point. This is punishing him for doing what you what him to do. If you must work on pointing under these circumstance lift your dog and carry him away and praise him.

I worked with a dog that blinked birds after the second opportunity to point in a similar set up you appear to be doing. We let that dog point and chase birds al summer. We steadied this fellow up the following summer to become one of the top dogs in its breed.

My suggestion is to to find birds that you can let fly freely. This may be a tough call if you have difficulties obtaining birds, but it sounds like your dog requires this. Let him chase! Make sure the birds are good flyers as you do not want him to catch them. Do your yard work and teach whoa, the teach whoa again. You can not teach your dog whoa enough! It is the basis for building.

[ChrisGSP]

Thanks for all your replies, My dog is 3 yrs old this summer. As Jixer has said she points bird then backs up.
I've been had her out about 3 or 4 times in the last week on my caged birds and carded birds, she is making very good progress, I've hidden the caged birds and brought her around on a check cord letting her find them and she points them very well. she holds her points I pet her up and praise her, then pick her up and carry here up wind of the bird. The last couple of times I've used carded bird let them fly and brought her around again on the CC, She finds thes birds aswell. If she can see the birds that's another story. I'm going out again tonight to work on just carded birds. and I'll use smaller cards so they can fly further away.
As far as the birds go, I do not own my house so I cannot keep alot of birds. I don't mind buying what I need when I can find them and I have o problem letting them go. Getting them is the biggest problem, I work every saturday and can not get to the market to get them.

So far she is coming along pretty well with what I'm doing. A few sessions ago I happended to have forgotten where I left one of the cages. After wandering around with her to no avail, I let her go... She found it, pointed it and held until I got there. I have never been happier to see her do that!!!

Chris

[Jixer]

Sounds like you are making good progress Chris. Keep it fun for her and I am sure you will do fine.