How would you best describe ABC's...

[Debbie C]

and what sort of things do you do daily to accomplish this. (from puppies to adult dogs) I think I'll always want multiple clarifications of the terminology involved with this game we play and this one for me is a big one. I read it continually and at this point, I still feel that I am only following along and not completely understanding it all. I REALLY want to understand this one.

thanx!
Debbie

[EvanG]

Debbie,

Are you referring to ABC marking drills, or is this a reference to the steps of training progression?

EvanG

[Debbie C]

I don't think I knew there was a difference or different types of ABC's, and if I did....I may have inadvertantly been calling it something else. I am really looking forward to knowing what the difference is and when to apply or use each.

I have been thinking that when doing your ABC's all you were doing was basic obedience...sit, here, heel, and that was when you first got the puppy..... But then I hear folks with the older dogs say that when they can't do marks on land or water because of the weather (winter), that they are doing ABC's... (I think i am confused....sorry) . :confused: I need to fill in some blanks here. I don't just want to follow along anymore...I want to know what I am doing and why.

Debbie

[Kevin Hannah]

I think she is asking about the ABC marking drill

[LeeW]

This how i do a ABC drill.
I put out generaly 4 gun stations and pick a concept that I want to work on.EG tight behind a gun station,under the ark marks ,outside a short fall ,through a short fall ect.
I will set up the first two stations in one of these or other concepts. On the other side with the other two gun stations I repeat the concept.
I run the ABC drill as singles and handle on route to correct wrong decisions on the dogs part.

Maybe right maybe wrong but that is how I do it ....

[Bryan.M]

The only way I can get through my ABC's is to sing em.



Now I know my abc s Regards,

Bryan.

[EvanG]

I think she is asking about the ABC marking drillKevin,

Thanks. I'm still not sure, so I'll address both!

"ABC's" is a common term that often refers to fundamentals. In retriever training, fundamentals are more often referred to as "Basics". I hope this helps...at least for starters.

The components of Basics in order

1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water tee with Swim-by

ABC-type marking drills

In my opinion there is no single ABC drill because it can be set up in any configuration you like. Since I so often use stickmen for them, I usually refer to them as Stickman Drills. But, stickmen or not, the idea is to place numerous gun stations in the field for concept work.

If you have lots of people to train with, then put your helpers out in arrangements to drill on such standard marking concepts as Hip Pockets, Inlines, Slot Birds, Flower Pot or Converging marks. I often set mine up to repeat a particular concept, like three Hip Pocket doubles. I do this so my dogs get three chances to get better at negotiating this type of concept, instead of just running a hip pocket as a cold set up.

The reason I drill like this, as opposed to many cold set ups, per se, is that I think trainers see a cold set up as a single opportunity and tend to lean toward using pressure to teach a concept, instead of re-exposing dogs to it. Re-exposure is how I see attrition being used optimally in retriever training. We get better at things through practice. So do our dogs.

http://rushcreekpress.com/images/340_SM_drill_1.jpg

This shows only a portion of a double-double stickman/ABC drill we did last spring in Vancouver. There were two Hip Pocket doubles.

Am I helping, or muddying the water?

EvanG

[HUNTONE]

The only way I can get through my ABC's is to sing em.



Now I know my abc s Regards,

Bryan.

Will you sing along with me?

Your not the only one in left-field!

[rocko]

Kevin,

Thanks. I'm still not sure, so I'll address both!

"ABC's" is a common term that often refers to fundamentals. In retriever training, fundamentals are more often referred to as "Basics". I hope this helps...at least for starters.

The components of Basics in order

1) “Here”
2) “Heel & Sit”
3) “Hold”; automatically evolves to Walking “Hold, Heel, Sit”
4) “Fetch”; ear pinch, which evolves into Walking “Fetch” & “Fetch-no-fetch”
5) Pile work, including Mini-pile, Nine bumper pile; AKA Force to pile
6) 3-handed casting; teaching the 3 basic casts – “Back” and both “Over’s”, including 2-hands “Back”
7) Mini tee; includes collar conditioning to all basic commands, transferring to the go, stop, cast functions in micro dimension as preparation for the Single tee. Also includes De-bolting
8) Single tee
9) Double tee
10) Water tee with Swim-by

ABC-type marking drills

In my opinion there is no single ABC drill because it can be set up in any configuration you like. Since I so often use stickmen for them, I usually refer to them as Stickman Drills. But, stickmen or not, the idea is to place numerous gun stations in the field for concept work.

If you have lots of people to train with, then put your helpers out in arrangements to drill on such standard marking concepts as Hip Pockets, Inlines, Slot Birds, Flower Pot or Converging marks. I often set mine up to repeat a particular concept, like three Hip Pocket doubles. I do this so my dogs get three chances to get better at negotiating this type of concept, instead of just running a hip pocket as a cold set up.

The reason I drill like this, as opposed to many cold set ups, per se, is that I think trainers see a cold set up as a single opportunity and tend to lean toward using pressure to teach a concept, instead of re-exposing dogs to it. Re-exposure is how I see attrition being used optimally in retriever training. We get better at things through practice. So do our dogs.

http://rushcreekpress.com/images/340_SM_drill_1.jpg

This shows only a portion of a double-double stickman/ABC drill we did last spring in Vancouver. There were two Hip Pocket doubles.

Am I helping, or muddying the water?

EvanG


Do you normally do this in a featureless field?

[Debbie C]

Thanks Evan.......you are definetely helping and I am looking forward to what others interpret it as and how they follow through on a daily regiment with their dogs.

[EvanG]

Do you normally do this in a featureless field?It depends on the need. If you're focusing only on a specific concept you may be better off keeping the terrain features to a minimum. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with running them on a field that is factor rich, as long as that is what will best benefit the dogs.

EvanG

[nimkii]

I interperet ABC's as the Sit, Heel and Here of basics. That's the way I was taught and and will always refer to them as such.

I was introduced to the marking drill last year but it was refered as an ABCD drill and it involved 4 stations...A, B, C and D. It was explained to me in the same fashion that Evan describes it.

[EvanG]

The first reference I ever heard to this type of drill, the trainer just called it an "A,B,C" drill. But, in practice, it could sometimes be called an "A through L" drill, or even "A thruogh Z", if that's what a trainer chose to do. I don't think we need to limit the number of gun stations in such a drill, especially if you're adapting a Stickman drill to focus on blinds in the presence of human forms.

You can set a few mock gun stations in the field, and just run an assortment of blinds through them - either from one line, or by moving around and running at odd angles. Of course, this is just one example of how flexible Stickman drills can be.

EvanG

[Debbie C]

Thanks guys...I definetely appreciate the info you have given me. Eventually I'm gonna get this stuff, although I don't think I'm ever gonna stop asking questions !! :emmbarassed:

[nimkii]

The first reference I ever heard to this type of drill, the trainer just called it an "A,B,C" drill. But, in practice, it could sometimes be called an "A through L" drill, or even "A thruogh Z", if that's what a trainer chose to do. I don't think we need to limit the number of gun stations in such a drill, especially if you're adapting a Stickman drill to focus on blinds in the presence of human forms.

You can set a few mock gun stations in the field, and just run an assortment of blinds through them - either from one line, or by moving around and running at odd angles. Of course, this is just one example of how flexible Stickman drills can be.

EvanG

Agreed it could have any number of guns, four stations was just what we had that day. Great drill though, I was pleased with how my dog worked through the old fall to get the long bird.

[Retrievers ONLINE]

Histrocially, teachers and trainers of all sorts, often referred to the Basics as The ABC's. It simply meant the fundamentals.

The ABCD marking drill was named by DL Walters and since been widely popularized in Retrievers ONLINE and Mike Lardy material after Dan DeVos showed it to me. Originally it was a set of 4 marks run as singles and designed to promote focus and concentration as well comfort in running tight to guns amid various configurations. There are many versions.

Readers of ONLINE will know that I often talk and write about remembering your ABC's. These are Attitude, Balance and Control. These 3 things are critical at all stages of training any dog.

So it depends who you are talking to.

Cheers