Various attributes to be judged...

[flatlands]

The rule book calls for various attributes to be judged. Most often discussed are memory, trainability/obedience, & style. But how do you define some of the others, and what are you looking for as a judge (or trainer)?

Let's start with "sagacity" which I believe i have heard misused by some folks; the dictionary defines it as shrewdness or wisdom, a kind of practical intelligence.

How would this differ from "intelligence," also listed as a separate attribute?

What would sagacity look like in a trial, & how do folks discern and value it when judging a dog's performance? (It's a personal favorite of mine & I get a thrill when I see a dog displaying "sagacity)."

How 'bout anyone else?


Connie

[LeeW]

sa·gac·i·ty [ sə gássətee ]


noun

Definition:

wisdom or discernment: profound knowledge and understanding, coupled with foresight and good judgment


I like watching dogs get short retired in front of long stand out ( I hate this setup by the way ).Where the dog knows he is doing a short retired not just stumbling on them..

Intelligence is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn

[Mary Lynn]

Would a form of sagacity be when the dog retrieves 1 mark and on the way in looks over to where the other mark is or in the direction as if he is sizing up his next retrieve or where the bird has fallen? ML

[luvmylabs]

I always thought of sagacity as a kind of awareness of where they were in the field in relation to the gunners and the marks. It is an awareness of not being in the right place and knowing where they need to be to get the mark. It's almost like they have a mini map in their head they can use to get back into the fall area. Dogs like that seem to do better if a factor puts them off their line to the fall. They seem to be able to readjust and don't get as confused in that situation. Maybe didn't explain it very well.

Anne

[Retrievers ONLINE]

I always thought of sagacity as a kind of awareness of where they were in the field in relation to the gunners and the marks. It is an awareness of not being in the right place and knowing where they need to be to get the mark. It's almost like they have a mini map in their head they can use to get back into the fall area.
Anne

I agree with Anne on this. Dogs like Lean Mac would get in trouble hunting a mark, look up and it seemed almost reason their way back to the bird. It's not like remebering a bird on the way from another but being able to get out of trouble. The great dogs display this when hunting near a bird they have already gotten.

[Lpgar]

Greatest example I ever saw was by one of the Great ones here in Canada....Her owner who will remain nameless decided to run her in a few Ams. after she had retired.....FC FTCH AFTCH National Finallist 6 times. He had actually never run the dog in competition up until this point.

He sent Her for a water blind 45 degrees off line toward a land cheat...She correct on her own....entered and ended up lining the blind. Best example of sagacity I have ever seen....situational intellegence with a proper training response at it's highest level....Oh...btw...place 2nd that day.

Gar

[Retrievers ONLINE]

Greatest example I ever saw was by one of the Great ones here in Canada....Her owner who will remain nameless decided to run her in a few Ams. after she had retired.....FC FTCH AFTCH National Finallist 6 times. He had actually never run the dog in competition up until this point.

He sent Her for a water blind 45 degrees off line toward a land cheat...She correct on her own....entered and ended up lining the blind.

Gar

Sounds like she can't hold a line!!!:cheesy:

PS. We know who you mean:1:

[captainjack]

I have 1 example that I will never forget .... land quad with 2 retired. Dog retrieved 3 of the birds well, and had the retired indent bird to pick up. The dog busted thru the indent bird and was heading long when it all of a sudden stopped, turned around and headed right back to the short bird and picked it up without a hunt. It was not a wind save ... it was sagacity. It was almost as if it said..." what the heck am I doing." I think it was one of the smartest things that I have ever seen a dog do.
To answer Connie's question... I would have given it A+, it was just a short distance outside the area of the fall. This is not a lie.... the dog was dropped.
I guess the judges were not looking for this attribute.

Peter

PS. Chris don't think I am bitching... it was not my dog.

[waterfowler65]

I always thought of sagacity as a kind of awareness of where they were in the field in relation to the gunners and the marks. It is an awareness of not being in the right place and knowing where they need to be to get the mark. It's almost like they have a mini map in their head they can use to get back into the fall area. Dogs like that seem to do better if a factor puts them off their line to the fall. They seem to be able to readjust and don't get as confused in that situation. Maybe didn't explain it very well.

Anne


I like to call it being street smart in the field, Somone having a dog like this has something verry special....not only in the field....
Marc.....