Trials

[Huntingonthebrain]

Ok, so next year in the spring I would like to try to get my dog on his way to getting a title. What is involved as far as the tests are concerned? What does my dog have to do and how does it work??? I say next spring because the fall is going to be about getting my dog hunting and just doing it first. I will worry about trials after I got that down... but hey you have to have a goal right??

[Jixer]

If you are looking for titles, CKC hunt tests would be your best bet locally.
Field Dog Junior, Field Dog and Field Dog eXcellent. Each requires passing the appropriate test 3 times. Your other local option would be to look at the NAVHDA program. You could test him in Utility. I "think" he will be too old to run in Natural Ability.

[Huntingonthebrain]

so Junior field dog would be my first go.. so what does Machaceh actually need to do to pass the test??

[Sharon]

Is your dog a pointing breed or a retriever?

It's almost impossible to have a dog that is successful with hunt test and trials. I've seen the odd dog occasionally do well once or twice in both, but I've only personally seen ( over 10 years), one dog become an FDX ( pointing breeds) and a FTCH. - CH Uplander's TechniCallie FDX

[Jixer]

Case- Mac is a fine young Brittany. He is actually a grand son to Callie.


Huntin.... I dug up a copy of the FDJ scoresheet. Here it is -> http://www.execulink.com/~jixer/FDJ Scoresheet.pdf

[Sharon]

Wow, isn't that an amazing co-incidence! Well, if he's got Callie blood in him, anything is possible!

( I keep all my certificate and ribbons too. Even where I placed first but there were only 3 dogs! LOL We're a strange breed.)

[Jixer]

Lol. The one I posted is blank but I do have every one of her score sheets, ribbons and certificates for her FDJ, FD and AF/AFTCA. :nice work:

[Huntingonthebrain]

I have somehow missed looking at this thread for a while and therefore I am just now reading this thread. My dog is Ataboy's Forever Machaceh. His Mom was (I say "was" because she was lost in a fire earlier this year) Uplander's Autum Rhapsody (called sage) and his father is Ataboy's I AM Canadian. He is a driven little brittany spaniel. Loves to hunt already, though he is still learning. He is starting to point alot more now after a little training. Jixer does indeed have the pedigree right. Callie is his grand mama.


Is your dog a pointing breed or a retriever?

It's almost impossible to have a dog that is successful with hunt test and trials. I've seen the odd dog occasionally do well once or twice in both, but I've only personally seen ( over 10 years), one dog become an FDX ( pointing breeds) and a FTCH. - CH Uplander's TechniCallie FDX

[Sharon]

It has been a while since I did CKC tests , but if I remember correctly for JR FD he has to show an eagerness to hunt and search - not a Sunday walk. He should be starting to cover the field effectively. Some judges like a windshield wiper approach to the field while others like the dog to reach out to the likely objectives. He should handle co-operatively - not a lot of hollering required; he should change direction on command or hand signal.

In the bird field he should find a bird! No long point is necessary but a flash point is nice. When the bird flushes you should be able to fire your pistol without the dog re-acting. This is not a competiton. Your dog is graded according to the score sheet Jixer gave you.
( In TRIALS dogs compete against each other.)

P.S. See post under "Starter Pistols" for info on AFTCA trials.

[Huntingonthebrain]

I got some work to do... I am not sure my dog would pass any of that right now.. based upon what I see on the score sheet. But then again I am always my own and my dog's worst critic

[Sharon]

I got some work to do... I am not sure my dog would pass any of that right now.. based upon what I see on the score sheet. But then again I am always my own and my dog's worst critic

Unless you or your dog are a total Dudley :opps: it's pretty hard to fail a FDJ test. That's why if I were looking for a test/hunting dog , I would never buy a pup whose parents were advertised as having only their FDJ , as if it were a big plus. It's a start ( nice opportunity to get into it ), for pups and new trainers.

P.S.
(A dog I wanted to use in Field Trials would only come from a field trial pedigree.)

[Jixer]

LOL. I have seen some Dudleys...
If your dog hunts, it should pass a FDJ. If your dog had no desire, I might be worried. That said, you don't have anything to worry about.

[Huntingonthebrain]

Thanks guys. Now I just gotta train some more and maybe by the fall I can start going for a test

[Sharon]

Thanks guys. Now I just gotta train some more and maybe by the fall I can start going for a test

HB I have something to tell you. I'm really a lady.:clap2:

[Huntingonthebrain]

well there you go.. I had no clue.. if I looked at your profile, would that have tipped me off?? Guess I won't make that mistake again. Well I am pleased to make your acquaintance Lady Case.. hehe

[Vindalbakken]

I
It's almost impossible to have a dog that is successful with hunt test and trials. I've seen the odd dog occasionally do well once or twice in both, but I've only personally seen ( over 10 years), one dog become an FDX ( pointing breeds) and a FTCH. - CH Uplander's TechniCallie FDX

I was just browsing around, new to the site, and found this statement.

Off the top of my head I can think of 6 dogs that are FC/FDX titled.

IMO the only reason you would have a hard time finding dogs doing well in both venues in Eastern Canada is because there are virtually NO TRIALS held in Eastern Canada for a dog to be able to show they could do well in one.

It is also my opinion that virtually every FC dog I have seen run could pass their FDX title should the owner of the dog care to put in the time to train for it. The reverse is not true. The difference is that any dog with a modicum of hunting ability can be trained to perform the tasks required of a passing FDX dog. You cannot "train" the abilities into a dog which are required for it to be a competitive field trial dog.

[Sharon]

There are no CKC field trials in Ontario. I'm not sure what your FC was referring to as there is no such title for pointing breeds in Ontario now.
I was referring to American (AFTCA) trials in which many of us participate . To earn the title Champion you must win a Championship; you can not do it by accumulating points. Dog of the Year Certificates are presented for each stake . 5 clubs make up the Ontario Bird Dog Conservation Association in Ontario - Region 13 of the American Field.

I hear about what you're saying about being able to go one way but not the other.
I do think though that it is almost impossible to get a
big running ( normally 200-300+ yards out there) dog to shorten up enough for a FDX course.

P.S. Welcome to the forum.

[Kevin Hannah]

I have a question.

I keep seeing comments from the upland people about the lack of trials and lack of clubs here in Ontario. There are obviously lots of people around training dogs. Why are there not more clubs around ontario that are holding tests and trials around here?

I know it is sometimes hard to get a club started but i know from experience with our club we started with about 5 members and we hold a hunt test every year now. First couple were tough but as the memberrship grew things got better.

Kevin

[Sharon]

There are lots of hunt test clubs. Trials were ended by CKC more than anything else for a variety of reasons involving no large grounds, horses, no horseback riding judges etc.

[Vindalbakken]

I highly doubt that the trials were ended by the CKC. CKC trials are alive and well in Alberta and BC. The fact that there are no CKC trials east of Alberta is the fault of the Pointing Dog Clubs and the members therein, not the CKC.

We have a very good working relationship here between the CKC and AFTCA clubs - many of the CKC clubs sanction their trials with AFTCA as well and AFTCA Region 14 welcomes these clubs and trials with a special division in the DOY awards (multiple course wild bird trials and single course planted bird trials).

There is nothing in the rules of the CKC requiring the use of horses for trials. We have both horseback and walking stakes here for CKC. The CKC trials are predominantly Brittany with a smattering of other breeds. The AFTCA trials are predominantly Pointer with a smattering of other breeds. The Field Tests see a wide variety of breeds with the Brittany and GSP representing the majority of the dogs which participate in all three venues.

[Vindalbakken]

Does Region 13 have a website showing some particulars of their trails?

Check out http://www.region14aftca.com

[Sharon]

All right. I've met my match. LOL

You're absolutely right.
The 2 reasons were: no large grounds that allowed horses, and too few judges that had a horse to use ( not possible for judges to complete 2 days on foot). The handlers were nomally on foot.

[BdBHunts]

I keep seeing comments from the upland people about the lack of trials and lack of clubs here in Ontario. There are obviously lots of people around training dogs. Why are there not more clubs around ontario that are holding tests and trials around here?

I know it is sometimes hard to get a club started but i know from experience with our club we started with about 5 members and we hold a hunt test every year now. First couple were tough but as the memberrship grew things got better.


The 2 reasons were: no large grounds that allowed horses, and too few judges that had a horse to use ( not possible for judges to complete 2 days on foot). The handlers were nomally on foot.

Kevin from what I know of field trials for pointing dogs you need a large area to run. I picked up a pup for my brother-in-law last spring and the breeder ran horseback trials on his property across from the road from the house and kennels. It is 1800 acres. Not a lot of places to do that here in Ontario. The dogs would cover 300 acres in 30-40 minutes. Not to mention the horse trailers with sleeping areas and the trucks to pull them. I don't think we have a lot of members like that on this board or ones that could do that, but I may be wrong.

[Vindalbakken]

I would say that the minimum area for running a trial would be 320 acres for 1/2 hour stakes - unless the cover was very heavy and then you could get away with less but would also have a harder time for the judges to get a separation in the dogs. Judges do not need to be on horseback, but if they are not then they better be in shape.

Most of the trials out here run on private ground. Does no one in Ontario own a 1/2 section of land?

[Kevin Hannah]

Is there hunt tests here in Ontario?

How do they compare to trials as far as the required work for the dog.

Don't think I would enjoy going to a trial and running around behind my dog for 320 acres let alone 1800.

You upland guys need to re-think your requirements I think, we don't run around at all. We stand on the line in one spot and let the dog run out from there and come back to us:rockon:
I sometimes get ticked off when there is a long walk from the truck to the line, guess next time I feel that way I will just tell myself at least it isn't 320 acres away:doh:

[BdBHunts]

Most of the trials out here run on private ground. Does no one in Ontario own a 1/2 section of land?

We don't have sections here, most farms were set up as 100 acres. It was in the open praires that sections were used. With land prices here you had better have deep pockets to own that much land. There are probably people who own that much land in one piece but it can be difficult to get permission to use it.


Is there hunt tests here in Ontario?

The NAVHDA tests would be a hunt test, if get the chance go and watch one. Half of the Utility Test revolves around the water, there is a Duck Search, Walking at Heel, Steadiness by the Blind, Retrieve of Duck and Retrieve by Drag. At the Invitational level it gets much harder. One aspect is that your dog sits while another dog is sent in front of them and retrieves a bird, then returns in front of the dog with the bird. Big Bird and CDNVizsla can correct me or add anything I missed. We only run Utility in the fall in the Toronto Chapter and I think Grand River does the same, I am not sure of the Ottawa Chapter. The dogs compete against a standard, not each other, so potentially every dog entered could get a Prize 1.

There are NASTRA tests as well, but I am not very familiar with them but I know some DK owners that are. I believe they run for 20 minutes in the field, it is a timed event with speed and bird finds being important


How do they compare to trials as far as the required work for the dog.

I defer that to others as I am trying to find out info on them myself.

[Sharon]

Pointing breed hunt tests are well organized in Ontario.
They hold tests in the spring and the fall.

Brittany Club
Vizsla Club
Ontario all Pointing Breed Club
GSP Club Central ON ( no longer active)
GSP Club Eastern Ontario

These tests are held at Luther Marsh ( Orangeville) . Orono ( North Central Ontario) and down near Binbrook by the GSP Canada Club.

See the CKC website to register.
Info will also be posted here by someone next spring.

Register early, as there is always a big waiting list for the 2 day tests.

FDJR
FD
FDX

FDJR is made for the beginner.( Your dog should cover the ground effectively ( quarter some), handle to basic commands ( come, turn) and flash point at least. You will be asked to fire a .22 blank pistol when the bird flushes.
Some people say that all your dog has to do is breathe but this is demeaning the test( and the dog) and not true. I failed my first test because I walked off the field , forgetting to fire. LOL

Every entrant receieves an evaluation of their dog from the judge. No competition between dogs. (At least that is the way it is suppose to be .) Some clubs give HIT ( high in trial) at tests which I am against.

Visitors are welcome.

A handbook can be ordered from the CKC website- " Pointing Breed Tests".

.........................................

Trials

Trials are strictly competitive.
It's the difference between skating in your back yard with your neighbours and the NHL as far as competition goes.
Great, competent people but fights just like in the competitive retriever world.
I'm very competitive( you knew that didn't you LOL ) and want to have a competitive dog. She doesn't have to be first but she has to be good enough to be able to be first.

There are no CKC trials in Ontario.
The Ontario Bird Dog Conservation Association ( AFTCA - American Field) has 5 clubs who plan and assess 4 spring and 4 fall trials and 3 Championships a year.We probably have 100 members altogether. Our Championships attract many Americans. There is a mother web site but no region 13 site. http://www.aftca.org/

We are fortunate to be able to use the ground at Hullett. Each year trails are mowed for handlers/judges.A portion of every entry fee goes to Hullett. Should that location end, trialing in Ontario would end. http://www.hullettmarsh.org/

To be a Champion you must win a Championship that you have qualified to participate in. The best againt the best. Depending on how many dogs are in your stake, you get points for how many dogs you beat if you place first , second , third, fourth or fifth. A Dog of the Year is named for each stake. Once of my dogs was named Open Shooting Dog of the Year last year. Her first year as a shooting dog.:redface: 15 trophies are presented for our region each year at a dinner.http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g132/lee460/00320012.jpg

The stakes are :

Puppy Walking
Puppy Horseback
Amateur Derby W
A. Derby H.
Open Shooting Dog W.
O Shooting Dog H.
All -Age

** I could post the requirements for each stake sometime if anyone was interested.

We use planted quail or chukar in the spring and planted pheasant in the fall. There is a pheasant hatchery on site.

Judges work in pairs. They leave town fast. I've never had a judge who walked but if you could walk for 12 hours with a half hour lunch break at a quick jog over rough terrain and were 10 feet tall so you could see the dog's whereabouts you could do it!

Trials are not for a person to just jump into like a FDJR. You need to come to several trials, watch, learn, listen, ask etc etc... Then when you feel ready, buy that puppy, with guidance.

Very difficult to attract new members although we've seen several over the past 2 years.
You have to be guided in where to buy a possible trial pup. You definately need guidance in developing that pup. As the retriever folk know it isn't cheap to trial a dog. Unless you're in great walking condition you need a truck and a horse. 85 percent of the people in our 5 clubs only participate in the horseback trials.

I've enjoyed every minute of the last 10 years but as I'm slowing down, I will probably only trial one dog next year.

P.S. This is my contribution for the week. I am now going to go and soak my fingers in some ice. I haven't written this much since university.

[AlbertaVizsla]

Is there hunt tests here in Ontario?

How do they compare to trials as far as the required work for the dog.

Don't think I would enjoy going to a trial and running around behind my dog for 320 acres let alone 1800.

You upland guys need to re-think your requirements I think, we don't run around at all. We stand on the line in one spot and let the dog run out from there and come back to us:rockon:
I sometimes get ticked off when there is a long walk from the truck to the line, guess next time I feel that way I will just tell myself at least it isn't 320 acres away:doh:

But how much walking would you have to do with a flusher/retriever if you decided you wanted to go for a day of upland hunting?

[Vindalbakken]

Actually, when I hunt with my pointing dogs I walk the same amount as when I hunt behind flushing dogs for upland. The difference is that the pointing dogs look in about 3 times as much potential bird holding cover as the flushing dogs do in that same time span.

[RyanGSP]

The difference is that the pointing dogs look in about 3 times as much potential bird holding cover as the flushing dogs do in that same time span.

And thats why I own a pointer

[AlbertaVizsla]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken
The difference is that the pointing dogs look in about 3 times as much potential bird holding cover as the flushing dogs do in that same time span.


And thats why I own a pointer


That's what I meant ;)

Shoulda said - how far do you have to walk to get as many birds LOL

[Vindalbakken]

The way I shoot I wouldn't be asking that!!!

That's why I need pointy dogs - gets me more chances and gets me in closer to them.