Intro of the E Collar

[andrew06]

At what time do you introduce the E-Collar to your pointing dog? I have been thinking for awhile about what to get but mostly when I will be getting one. I know now is not the right time -yet but how will I know when it is the right time?
This is my first GSP and I am happy with all the progress so far and I dont want to spoil it by bringing in the collar at the wrong time!! Andrew

[Sharon]

Lots of different opinions on the subject. I make sure that my young dog is very confident in the field ( bold?) before I use the e-collar.
My only reason for using the e-collar is so I can re-inforce commands when my dog is out of reach: I can't get to him on my feet quick enough. As long as I can get to him, I don't use it. I'm not a retriever owner but it would seem to me that once the dog is out in the middle of the pond, refusing to retrieve one would want to use an e-collar rather than dive in. With pointers. once my pup is ranging out to a distance where I can't physically handle him,then.............
Teach the pup how to turn the collar off in your yard before you hit the fields.
Use the lowest setting possible to get a response.
ONLY use it to re-inforce known commands.

You can't use an e-collar in competition and it's difficult to use it in hunting so remember: Your voice is still your best tool.

[andrew06]

I thought that would be a very general question after I posted it. Maybe I can explain a little more where Im at and see what everyone thinks. My GSP will point on scent before he ever sees the wing/bird, up to this point I've always had him on a check cord so I have control, he definaly will hold point - while im there, but I can tell he wants to chase as soon as bird moves at all. This is where I will pull on the cord to ensure he does NOT move. Any suggestions on where I should go from here? I am getting a launcher for piegon, I thought that may be a good next step?? Any suggestions would be much appreciated! Andrew

[Sportdog]

What we do if the dog wants to make chase after the bird is flushed is use a whoa post and throw pigeons near the dog so he understands he cannot move. After that we walk with the dog on a lead or check cord and throw pigeons in sight of the dog. When the bird fly's we whoa him/her until the flush - chase is controlled. I had a dog brought in that a e-collar was used to controll the chasing and the dog started to blink the birds. It took months to get her cofidence back to point as she expected the collar would go off as soon as the bird flew and lost interested. We use the e-collar for controll only in the field for basic commands.
Sportdog

[andrew06]

I'm going to sound like a definate newbie when I ask this but what does it mean when a dog "blinks birds", I've seen that phrase a few times but am not really sure what it means.

[Sportdog]

The term blinking birds is when the dog hits the sent of the bird he will make a quick reaction like moving his head extra the indicate he smelt it but will not point and move on pretending he didn't smell it at all. Very frustrating when it happens. Blinking birds can happen from just training to much with live birds at a young age. In a case like this we take the birds out of training for a week or two until the desire is back. The e-collar blinking, using the e-collar to much with the combination of live birds can take months and sometime they never get over it , always thinking that they will get shocked if they find a bird.

[Jixer]

Dogs don't think the same way as us. You have to be carefull witht those ecollars. I know a trainer who was using one to stop a dog from barking. Every time that the dog barked, it got a nick. Problem was, the dog was only barking when MY dog was there. Dog didn't associate the correction with barking. It associated it with my dog. Next time that dog was let off the chain and my dog was there, It attacked my dog.
Morel is, Proper conditioning is key, and make sure the dog knows what behaviour is being corrected!

[Sharon]

Lots of different opinions.

I believe, as do several well -known trainers in Ontario, that the dog SHOULD be allowed to chase strong flying pigeons for as long as it takes for him to figure out he can't catch them. Might take a year for some dogs.
After he learns that , he will start to creep ( then learns that the bird takes off when he creeps). Then he will have learned by himself to point. This has all happened with no handler involvement. Only then should whoaing pressure be brought to bear by the handler. I've seen a pro who had a formerly staunch dog who wasn't staunch anymore, go back lack to letting him chase until he learned the lessons again.
After these steps ypu can shoot some birds over the dog and bring the bird to him. He learns that if he holds he gets the bird.
The philosophy is that you are letting the dog learn ,rather than you "teaching" him. You're not saying, " I'm going to teach you to ...." but rather, "I'm going to set up situations whereby you can learn." As a teacher I always use this approach. This is very common "training " in the states but not as common in Ontario.

[Sportdog]

I agree totally that chasing strong flying pigeons is great for young dogs because it develops the prey drive. A dog that has no drive will never do well in the field or trial. I don't agree and thats my opionion that to let the dog keep chasing and up to a year so he can figure it out on his own that if he points the bird will not fly away. The one proffessional trainer thats coming from Kentucky to the Smith seminar told me last year this is how they did for years proffesionally especially his father and figured it out that it was a waste of time and energy on both him as well as the client. His point was no mother dog domesticated or wild would ever let a pup learn on its own without the guidance of her and she would make correction if the pup screwed up. As dog owners or trainers we are looked up by our dogs as teachers or a mother figure to make corrections as long as they are the right ones so they will learn faster and smarter.
Sportdog

[Sharon]

Many different philosophies . Each has to decide what they will use. I guess the "proof is in the pudding". :spoton:

[andrew06]

Thanks for all the advice guys, its great for me to figure things out. I definatly think that the next phase of training will be the piegon launcher!!!

[Sharon]

Thanks for all the advice guys, its great for me to figure things out. I definatly think that the next phase of training will be the piegon launcher!!!


You're welcome.
Case ( a lady) smilie