an observation

[Medie]

I went to 2 field trials in the last few weeks...one in Georgia and one in Alabama. All 4 all age land series were pretty much identical.....first bird shot well out of the picture to the left...retired and not a gimme. Second bird shot deep of the flier...gunner either almost behind the flier station and throwing left , or slightly separated from the flier and landing the bird almost behind the flier station ...retired....either way, extremely tight. The line to the long retired always downwind of the flier/ feather scent. Flier always thrown right. The dogs either thought momma/poppa and hunted short of #2 or did not pick out the long #2 gun or got hung up in the flier stink and returned to that fall area.

They sure got answers...or did until the wind changed so that the flier station was no longer upwind of bird 2.

I always find it interesting how a particular setup seems to dominate for a while.

[captainjack]

I went to 2 trials in Texas and saw the test you described only once, but the long bird retired was well behind the flyer station and not overly tight and it was up wind the flyer and therefore not influenced by scent, feathers etc. An excellent test with tremendous bird placement. I was impressed with all 4 tests and found them extremely tough, but fair - no tricks or entrapment tests.

Peter.

[flatlands]

The 2 trials I ran in GA were quite different from one another, but I am seeing lots of water, sometimes Big Water, on land series (including hen pheasant flyers shot into marshy water)-- am seeing this more often in Canada as well (not the flyer part!). The Tallokas Open land series, a big wide-open beautiful test, required a brief water entry on the true line to the short retired, & a big swim on the true line to the long retired--cheaters on that bird generally paid a big price, not recovering from being way off line. Water was not warm.

any comments?

Connie

[kawarthalabs]

At least everyone could say they "made it to the water series".:evil:
Tony.

[Labber]

The 2 trials I ran in GA were quite different from one another, but I am seeing lots of water, sometimes Big Water, on land series (including hen pheasant flyers shot into marshy water)-- am seeing this more often in Canada as well (not the flyer part!). The Tallokas Open land series, a big wide-open beautiful test, required a brief water entry on the true line to the short retired, & a big swim on the true line to the long retired--cheaters on that bird generally paid a big price, not recovering from being way off line. Water was not warm.

any comments?

Connie

Connie,
Did you consider it to be more land than water or more water than land?
Were the areas of fall on land or in water?

[flatlands]

Connie,
Did you consider it to be more land than water or more water than land?
Were the areas of fall on land or in water?


Much more land than water.
Short retired bird landed low on dike near water; long retired bird fell way out in field: long land entry into corner of pond, angle over dike, long swim to long land exit.

This is a judging question for me: I'm still thinking about it & am interested in others' thoughts. I've never had a problem w/ a bit of water in a land test, but often when it appears, it's asking for water-trained response which affects success on the mark. I'm seeing more of it lately.

My question is 2-fold: Does (significant) water on the land series subvert the rulebook intent to test dogs on land & water?

And does water in land series affect the dogs' performance in the water series? Especially when it's cold air & cold water, as many of us saw down south this year, & could see in early ON trials? Witness what Peter saw in Tulsa, & I saw the same thing at Tallokas--double-staked dogs saw an awful lot of water on a chilly weekend, with expected results!

Can you tell I'm pumped about the upcoming trial season?--I'm posting all over the place! But this is a very interesting issue for me-- please add your thoughts.

Connie

[captainjack]

Connie, I do not mind water on land test (weather permitting), and we all appreciate water on land in hot weather. But your point on the rule book is well taken. I would expect if there is a significant amount of water on the land test that it would be balanced with a significant amount of land on the water test to keep the land and water work balanced.
You usually do not see a lot of water on the land series because it takes time to run and if you have a good number of dogs, it may mess up your mechanics.
I remember judging a junior and we had a water mark on every test. But we ended with a total of 4 land marks and 4 water marks.
Cold water, cheating marks on a land series is looking for one thing - elimination as you know a number of dogs are not going to do it. It is a trained ability that you can test for in another trial where temperature is not the contributing factor.

Just my thoughts.

Peter