What Is A Starter Dog In Your Eyes?

[Huntmaster]

IM fairly new to this game because I always bought my pups at 7-8 weeks old, but always thought I knew what a starter dog was, so sure I never even asked anyone, afraid they might think I'm stupid. Well I guess I'm stupid because I thought a starter dog was just a pup that was house trained, introduced to gun and water, would sit, heal, stay and make a simple retrieve. I also don't know what the value would be for a starter dog, because I never tried to buy one. What age is a starter or is there levels. Please give your opinion of what you think a starter should be, I'm curious to see if anyone thought like me! :idea:

[Mike Bons]

I think it is a very good question. I have saw started dogs in the classifieds, that are anywhere from what you described through to starting advanced training, and therefor prices range accordingly, taking pedigree in to account.
IMHO, "started" means a dog that is through basics (TT, Swim-by, pattern Blinds, and is starting to run cold blinds).

Mike

[Jixer]

To me, a started dog should hold point till flush, retrieve on land, and have basic obedience. :spoton:

[Kevin Hannah]

Could be anything from young dog doing OB and basic retrieving to a dog working out of transition and into advanced work. The price on these dogs obviously varies a lot though.

My opinion is the same as Mikes, finished TT and swim by and working on pattern blinds and cold blinds. Should be steady and doing multiple marks in the field as well.

Kevin

[Huntmaster]

Thanks Guys for your opinions, and I understand the price would vary on pedigree and degree of training. But it sounds like with this type of training I would not be buying a pup, I would be getting a dog! So what age would a starter be? Plus what would the average price be for a middle class starter (meaning, fair to good pedigree). Is there anyone who has recently bought a starter here on the board that could answer this? I still don't know what a starter is! :stirpot: and :confused:

[Kevin Hannah]

Thanks Guys for your opinions, and I understand the price would vary on pedigree and degree of training. But it sounds like with this type of training I would not be buying a pup, I would be getting a dog! So what age would a starter be? Plus what would the average price be for a middle class starter (meaning, fair to good pedigree). Is there anyone who has recently bought a starter here on the board that could answer this? I still don't know what a starter is! :stirpot: and :confused:


I would say that the age would be anywhere from 1 to 2 years old. Price could vary from $1K to $5K I would think again depending on age and training level.

Kevin

[franklauzon]

I agree with mike and Kev, where basics should be nearing completion... And price is bang on.

[Sharon]

The definition for "started" depends on the breed. What I would want from a hunting JRT would not be the same as a field trialing setter.
For a field trialing setter, I'd expect the dog to be well socialized to other dogs, people, children and horses. I expect it to be introduced to water, gun fire,and some patterning should be in place. It should be introduced to birds - staunchness not required. Heeling, sitting not wanted. " Coming in when called" should be solid. Basic house manners would be nice but unlikely as the dog has probably been living in the kennel.

Many pros keep their pups for the first year to see if here's a possible Champion in the fold. The year + old pups that they sell as started would cost you several thousand dollars.
A breeder who has accomplished the above requirements would be selling a dog that was from 3 months to 18 months. My dog had all of the above requirements and was staunch at 10 weeks. If I had bought her then , she would have been sold as a started dog and could have cost up to 1500.dollars, so it's hard to attach an age to "started".
Before i bought a started dog , I'd want a demo of all the requirements I'm looking for.

[Mike Bons]

Read through some of these classifieds over at RTF, and you will soon gain an appreciation for the wide variety of definitions and prices for a started dog.
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=41fad9242cd1e8e221d5c42929274a27

[Sharon]

Read through some of these classifieds over at RTF, and you will soon gain an appreciation for the wide variety of definitions and prices for a started dog.
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=41fad9242cd1e8e221d5c42929274a27

Very interesting! And let the buyer beware. LOL

[Huntmaster]

That solves it, a starter dog is what ever the owner believes a starter is (his opinion). Mike Bons, I looked at the site you shared with us, and found numerous dogs all called starters and all with different levels of training, they ranged from 6 months old to 4 years old. But like Case said depending on breed, there are differences on what a started should be (that makes sense) Lab verse Setter. Kevin said a starters age should be, between 1-2. He also said:
My opinion is the same as Mikes, finished TT and swim by and working on pattern blinds and cold blinds. Should be steady and doing multiple marks in the field as well.

That sounds like a darn good dog to me, and one to be proud of. Funny enough there were starter dog with this level of training in the classifieds Mike shared, most of them from breeders. But then in the same classifieds are the dogs with basic training.

My conclusion is a starter is a dog, that is older then a pup, but younger then 5, some say basic training, and others say blind retrieves and swim by's. What we need now is a grading chart, i.e.; Starter, starter A, Starter A+ ect,,, LOL :bigrin Because by the looks of it everyone has their own idea what a starter is. After the chart is recognized by CKC, HRC, UKC, and AKC, a dog listed as a starter A+ you would know that dog only had basic training and was around 6 months to a year, plus an idea on price (depending on pedigree).
hope I started something here, if not it was fun and educational. :nice work:

[Kevin Hannah]

There is already a grading system in place, it is know as the price of the dog.


Kevin

[Huntmaster]

Now thats funny!!!!:cheesy: :clap2:

[3 black dogs]

I have a started 2 year old dog available to the right trial home only he is cc,ff single and double t swim by and decheated he is doing multiple marks and cold blinds up to 200+yrds and poison birds has 2 HR passes and his WCI he will be ready to competitivly run qual late fall early spring asking$ 3000.00 he could easily be hunted over this fall I shot over him last year with good results he deserves more time than I am giving him. He is OVC clear on hips and elbows optigen A through parentage and CNM Clear, eye's cert yearly

He is not a kennel dog and is great in the house if interested contact me privately

Chris
B Line Retrievers

[Mike Bons]

The problem is there are way too many variables that would influence such a chart, ie. Who did the training, what is the real potential of the dog, what has the dog accomplished to date, etc.

I remember reading on RTF that a very rough way of figuring out the value of a derby dog (Junior field trials) is $1000 per point.

[Sharon]

I have a started 2 year old dog available to the right trial home only he is cc,ff single and double t swim by and decheated he is doing multiple marks and cold blinds up to 200+yrds and poison birds has 2 HR passes and his WCI he will be ready to competitivly run qual late fall early spring asking$ 3000.00 he could easily be hunted over this fall I shot over him last year with good results he deserves more time than I am giving him. He is OVC clear on hips and elbows optigen A through parentage and CNM Clear, eye's cert yearly

He is not a kennel dog and is great in the house if interested contact me privately

Chris
B Line Retrievers

What?? All Greek to me! :confused:

[Huntmaster]

The problem is there are way too many variables that would influence such a chart, ie. Who did the training, what is the real potential of the dog, what has the dog accomplished to date, etc.

I remember reading on RTF that a very rough way of figuring out the value of a derby dog (Junior field trials) is $1000 per point.

That would be the reason for a chart, a starter dog with a B+ might mean it was ready for masters, an Starter with an A- might mean it was doing light retrieves, not gun shy, and was water trained. This chart would take awhile to get use to, but your kids would grow up with it just like you did with all the dowg language you had to learn. I think it would help the buyers when looking for a certain grade of dowg. Because right now a starter means what ever the owner thinks it means. In about 4 years you would see an add for a A+ starter and know exactly what the dowg could do. As far as who trained the dowg or the pedigree, you would have to ask that now, so what's changed is cutting out all the other adds that are for a dowg you don't want, if your looking for a B+ you sure wont look at any that are A-. It should be up to a breeder to create this chart, and I'm sure we all would soon use their terms. JUST MY OPINION!! :2:

[Kevin Hannah]

That would be the reason for a chart, a starter dog with a B+ might mean it was ready for masters, an Starter with an A- might mean it was doing light retrieves, not gun shy, and was water trained. This chart would take awhile to get use to, but your kids would grow up with it just like you did with all the dowg language you had to learn. I think it would help the buyers when looking for a certain grade of dowg. Because right now a starter means what ever the owner thinks it means. In about 4 years you would see an add for a A+ starter and know exactly what the dowg could do. As far as who trained the dowg or the pedigree, you would have to ask that now, so what's changed is cutting out all the other adds that are for a dowg you don't want, if your looking for a B+ you sure wont look at any that are A-. It should be up to a breeder to create this chart, and I'm sure we all would soon use their terms. JUST MY OPINION!! :2:


Still too many variables, your best indicator is still usually price when combined with training level, pedigree and all the other variables listed above. It may seem confusing right now but the more of them you see the easier it is to guage the dog.

Kevin