Avoidance

[trapperwill]

I was sailing along just fine into tt when I hit a road block. When I set up, the dog is at heal, "dead bird" cues him, when has the right line I say "right there", hand comes down and "Back". What's happening now is that as soon as my hand comes down, he looks 90 degrees to the left. Take the hand away and his head comes back. I'm pretty sure he's saying that "if I don't look there you won't send me". He'll take a back cast if he's sitting in front of me. He knows where the bumpers are. I've tried without my hand and get a no go most of the time. I'd like to force to pile again but how can I do that when he won't look? I saw him do something similar during ff but he was on a table and we won that battle. I've tried mixing in lots of fun bumpers in between, lot's of praise when he does go. I've probably left something out so just ask. Anyone seen this before or got any advice?

[2labs]

Sounds like he/she is bugging , try saying leave it hear and if the dog gives a no go "nick hear nick " another thing you said when you put your hand down the dog looks away, well that is a cue for the dog that it is going to be sent, leave the hand out of it and move up to the main pile simplify . When the dog looks the other way are the over piles out? If the over piles are out remove them untill the dog runs to the main pile. Also have you forced the dog on the main pile, if not go back and give force mainly NICKS and give pleanty of free runs to the main pile. You need to make it fun for the dog slip in a duck or pigieon get him/she pumped . Hope this helps and good luck

[trapperwill]

Thanks for the info. I'm down to 15 yards to the pile in the front yard. No other piles have ever been where he's looking. I was able to get a few (2) force to piles in before it started again. I started treating his head turn as a no go and walked out 5 feet and then heal nick heal. Then he would go. Same head turn next time. I'll keep plugging away at it. I did try the here nick here on the weekend but I think it only put me further behind. Thanks again.

[2labs]

Has the dog been forced to the pile the separte one and if so are you doing the "T" in the same location, When I said here nick here stand beside the dog do not move up and then call the dog , give the command here nick step forward and say here again. Also hows the dog attidue before starting the T is it upbeat or is it down. ?

[trapperwill]

In an attempt to simplify I moved from my TT back to the yard. Basically started from scratch.. identified pile etc.. He has been forced to both TT pile and pile in yard although I'm certain now that I didn't do it right the first time. Second time's a charm hopefully. I did try standing still with a here nick here every time he tried to avoid being sent. He would straighten up but then turn his head again right before being sent. Did I mention he was a stubborn chocolate? Attitude is not a problem. He bounces like a jack rabbit for an hour as soon as he either comes off the truck or sees a bumper. I'm making progress so I'll keep going and work back up to where I had him. If you've got any tips for force to pile, that would be great. I'm pretty sure that's where I messed up.

[andrew06]

My chocolate lab is the same way when it comes to bumpers. I suggest setting out a pile of couches, when you send him on back or over - he can decide which one he wants to lay on. Works for me - he'll have a break and take a nap everytime.. LOL

[franklauzon]

I'm going to make one big assumption here, and that is that the dog KNOWS where the pile is, and also that the pile is well identified using a pail or something. Also that the pile is identified before each session begins. So I guess 3 assumptions.

Personally, I would give the dog a SIT... then take a big step forward leaving the dog behind, then give a HERE BURN HERE, if you have to do this until you're at the damn pile so be it. If the dog has been going back fine, then there's no reason other than a back refusal.

That being said, I had problems with my dog going to the side piles instead of the back pile, and I cured this by using orange for a while, then re-introduced white piles with a back nick back for sucking to a side pile.

[nimkii]

I've done what Frank has suggested when Abbie bugs but with a couple of changes. I'll command sit and take a step forward and then send her. It blocks her line of site to what ever she is looking at. If necessary I'll heel her on the other side if what she is looking at is off to her left.

[franklauzon]

Ross the only problem I can "see" with moving up and leaving the dog behind is you don't really know if her head is pinpointing the back pile, and as such you might be sending her to the far left pile or something... I've got the worst dog for not looking where I want, no amount of wagon wheeling seems to help, other than being patient with her.

[nimkii]

I move up just enough to block her view, sometimes all it takes is just moving my left leg forward and my knee will block her view.

[franklauzon]

Oh, I assure you I do that, she just moves with me... lol... It's the biggest problem we have, and she just does it her way... She'll hopefully learn...

[5-Salt]

Mine will do the same thing at the end of tough session or long blinds to back pile when he thinks all the bumpers are retrieved.

I no him off the wrong line and give a "good" or "line" command twice when he on the correct line. I give the command twice to comfrim he is eying the same line and not looking on a slightly different line or about to turn his head.

If he remains confused, I sit/stay, while I take 6-7 steps forward on the correct line, drop my hand, heel to me and start over. If he blasts in the worng direction or starts to bend, I call him back to heel and take 4-5 steps ahead again. Works great with long blinds as well.

Somedays it take three/four re-sets to get him on the correct line. Each re-set I take more steps on the line before heeling him up to me.