Training tips please.

[Spear]

My dog and I. We love each other and hate each other. I got laid up with a very bad sprain last fall and did not get out much with the dog. At the time he was finding and pointing very well. I am up and about now and walking only with a mild limp. Today I planted a few pigeons and he ran and flushed the birds. No rewards for that. I think the problem has been that for the most part of every day he is in my back yard which is rather large and a great haven for morning doves. At first he would point for ever on these birds. Well I can't be there all the time so he gave up waiting on point and started to creep and chase the birds. When hunting he is hard to call back, in training sessions he always comes.

Will I ever get the pointer to be a pointer again?
With out an e-colar what are your Brittany dogs like for obeying you once they are in hunting mode.

[Jixer]

I'd go back to check cord work and whoa training in the yard. Let him know what is expected. If he is a bit out of practice, He may just need a little refresher.

Both of my Britts will come in when called. With the older one, I used an ecollar to re-enforce. The younger one hasn't really hit his defiant stage yet, so we will have to wait and see how he does this hunting season.

[Spear]

So when is the defiant stage. About 2-3 years old? I am new to Brits.

[Jixer]

10 months? Sort of like the teen-age stage a kid goes through....:boxing:

[ChrisGSP]

I would go back 2 or 3 steps and tune the pup up, re work what you were doing defore, it'll figure it out.
Just my 2cts

Chris

[Jixer]

With my female, There is no calling her off of a retrieve. She has always had a very high prey drive and if she knows the prize is there, she is going to get it.

[Huntingonthebrain]

With out an e-colar what are your Brittany dogs like for obeying you once they are in hunting mode.

Why would you not use an e-collar in a hunting situation??? I guess I am of the opinion that the E-collar is the safety net when hunting- to be used as a last resort in a possible danger situation. I actually tried Mac the last couple of training times (still on a check cord) without the e-collar. He seemed ok without it. But he is young and still not ready for where you are Spear. In a training situation he holds point pretty well. Off check cord... hehe... well we are still working on that. Hehe.. he will come around I am sure.

[Spear]

I think I am somewhat of a romantic. I like the idea of walking out in the field with a dog I am talking to rather than zapping. I may turn to it if I have to but for now I will work on it with out. I will give it a couple of years. With my last dog, after about 6 years we were just heading out for a walk, we knew what each was doing and what was expected. It was good. I just want to make sure I get to that point again, and I know it takes time and purposfull training. Since this is a new breed for me I need to make sure I ask the questions.

[be2man]

My experience with the e collar is that once the dog is conditioned to it and understands it you will rarely have a need to use it. Even the best trained dog can have days or conditions where they seem to come a little unhinged. One reminder with the e collar is a lot less stress than chasing down a dog and trying to get control when he's decided he wants to be a flusher for the day. Even more important on a game farm, a flight of Woodcock or an environment like the Pelee Island hunt.

My2c Tom

[Maverick]

Spear,

The one other tool you may want to look at is the command lead.
http://www.huntsmith.com/articles/TheCommandLead.htm
When used properly is gives you complete control of your dog and dogs seem to respond very quickly to it.
Have a read of the article above and then let me know if you want one as I have a few lying around the house.

Mav......

[jdbritt01]

I'm too old to be chasing dogs down to correct them and I don't want to hunt with a command lead on the dog. Train until the dog knows the command and enforce it when needed with the e-collar. Ugly as they are they look better than a dog splattered on the road. I also don't like listening to someone hollering at a dog all day as it busts birds and spoils a day in the fields. Just one more opinion.

[Maverick]

I wasn't saying don't use a collar but the command lead is great for yard work and getting a dog to listen to and learn commands. You do know that you don't turn a dog loose and use the collar to enforce a command he does not know yet. Once the command is known and has been overlayed with collar turn them loose and use it if you have it. I don't turn the dog loose with the command lead on.
Mav......


I'm too old to be chasing dogs down to correct them and I don't want to hunt with a command lead on the dog. Train until the dog knows the command and enforce it when needed with the e-collar. Ugly as they are they look better than a dog splattered on the road. I also don't like listening to someone hollering at a dog all day as it busts birds and spoils a day in the fields. Just one more opinion.

[jdbritt01]

The origional post implied that the dog knows the commands but ignores the when in hunting mode( out of reach ). As I said train until the dog knows the command and the reinforce it with the e-collar. When the dog learns the following sequences,

command - compliance - reward or
command - defiance - correction
he can then make the choice to obey based on experience.
The e-collar allows correction to take place when needed without having to physically run the dog down and correct him when it is too late.
The collar should only be used by someone with the knowledge and experience to use it properly and intelligently. If you have not used one before get a few lessons from someone that knows what they are doing.

[Maverick]

Agreed but in his post ( #8 in this thread) he implied he would rather not use a collar if he did not have to. My reason for the command lead was to go back to the begining with all the yard work and reinforce all the commands with the command lead on him so if could be enforced.

Mav....


The origional post implied that the dog knows the commands but ignores the when in hunting mode( out of reach ). As I said train until the dog knows the command and the reinforce it with the e-collar. When the dog learns the following sequences,

command - compliance - reward or
command - defiance - correction
he can then make the choice to obey based on experience.
The e-collar allows correction to take place when needed without having to physically run the dog down and correct him when it is too late.
The collar should only be used by someone with the knowledge and experience to use it properly and intelligently. If you have not used one before get a few lessons from someone that knows what they are doing.

[jdbritt01]

The dog obeys during yard work so it would be wrong to correct him then wouldn't it? The correction must be made when the dog disobeys (hunting mode ). Maybe he can run down a pointer in full flight, maybe you can, but I can't. That is when I use the e-collar. This is just my experience.

[Maverick]

He said he comes everytime, there is much more to yard work then just "come" and "heel".
I have never said I could run down a dog in full flight but it has been my experience that is things are not working in the field going back to the basic of yard work for a short time to reinforce know commands can have a positive effect on off leash work in the field.
If he had a collar he could use one but as of now he doesn't have one. The hope is going back to the onleash or check cord or command lead will help get him straight.

Mav....


The dog obeys during yard work so it would be wrong to correct him then wouldn't it? The correction must be made when the dog disobeys (hunting mode ). Maybe he can run down a pointer in full flight, maybe you can, but I can't. That is when I use the e-collar. This is just my experience.

[Sharon]

I think Mav has it right. There's a good chance that if the dog is not obeying in the field, it's not defiance but because the command hasn't been well- learned yet. I'd go back to the yard work, then graduate to some kind of more easily controlled environment ( off the check cord in the back yard where you can get to the dog quickly for example) and then to the field.

I have a dog that was burned badly by a previous owner as a pup. I can't use an e-collar on her. All I've got is the above. Now if I had a horse.........

[Jixer]

Not sure that I'd recomend putting an ecollar on a horse.:boink:


I think that the ecollar can be a wonderfull tool for training a dog. Makes for a good extension to the checkcord, but Dogs have been trained for many years without an ecollar and with good results. If you don't want to use one, and have the patience to do it with the traditional methods (No not a pellet gun), then that is your choice.
I do not know this dog's background as well as Mav, but I know that it does have a history and previous owner.

Now... when do we get to watch Mav chase Maverick across the fields?:stirpot:

[jdbritt01]

I'm sure Mav has trained many more dogs than I have and is probably right. I'm always ready to learn from those who have been there and done it.

[Maverick]

I don't remember ever having said that. I am always willing to learn from others and expand my base of knowledge, as there sure must be more then one way to skin a cat.
I agree e-collars are a great tool when you have one and know how to use it. I have seen your dogs run and know they are very well trained dogs and know that you know how to get them there.
In this case he does not have an e-collar and I suggested he go back to the basics of yard work.



I'm sure Mav has trained many more dogs than I have and is probably right. I'm always ready to learn from those who have been there and done it.