Wildrose Kennels, Continental Kennel Club, and DU

[ducksoup]

Just saw this on another forum -- but thought it was important enough to share here. Wildrose Kennels is offering a "Continental Retriever Field Champion" through the Continental Kennel Club on March 31/07. Wildrose Kennels is the kennel that sells British Labs as the "gentleman's gun dog" and donated to Ducks Unlimited Drake "the DU dog" -- this is not about British style dogs vs. US type dogs though -- the concern is that the Continental Kennel Club is a "registry/kennel club" that accepts mixed breeds as being "registered" -- they support puppy mills -- why one can even "register" Labradoodles -- and the fact that DU accepted the "offer" of Drake as the "official DU dog" from Wildrose Kennels who now choose to be aligned to the CON-MAN Kennel Club (I mean the Continental Kennel Club) doesn't sit very well with me -- I support DU but question their involvement with Wildrose and conversely Continental Kennel Club (the FAKE CKC) -- if they do not resolve this matter to my satisfaction, I'm prepared to end my support of DU -- I'd terminate my involvement with DU over this -- that's how strongly I feel about this -- in fact I don't get this whole Drake the DU dog thing at all -- this is only to the benefit of the owner of Wildrose, Mike Stewart, who is a brillant marketing person but IMHO not any more than just an average dog trainer -- there are better repesentatives of working retrievers than Drake -- far better choices -- Drake is nothing special

DU should end all involvement with Wildrose, at the very least until Wildrose puts a stop to their alliance with the Continental Kennel Club

Mike Ormsby

[Drew Good]

I agree with you Mike. It looks like everyone is jumping on the money bandwagon in regards to these damn "doodle" dogs. I also seen that CERF has also published a list of " regognized hybreds" ( my blood boils just saying the word ) and that list is 5 pages long.

Drew

[Kevin Hannah]

I have spoken to a lot of people that have bought these designer dogs because of the statements made about them and have found the oposite to be true in a lot of cases. Some had to be given away due to alergies and a few because of various social and health issues.

I usually avoid stating "I told you so" even though that is what I am usually thinking.

Kevin

[ducksoup]

Appreciate remarks about designer dogs and such -- however this thread is about much much more than that -- really generated feedback on other websites -- surprised it didn't grab more attention here -- I think DU and Wildrose should be held accountable if this association with the Continental Kennel Club continues
Mike Ormsby

[Drew Good]

I agree with you Mike, this is alot more than Hybrids. In my eye's Wildrose is nothin but a puppy mill ( 60+ litters per year ) and the CON-KC is nothing more than an asylum for ex-AKC/CKC breeders that have lost there privileges. Any registry that will register a dog based on the owner's word and not documented proof is nothing more than a joke.

It is sad to see DU associate themselves with these people. I also appreciate your email Mike, it sheds a little light on this.

Drew

[Kevin Hannah]

They already locked this thread down on RTF so tread lightly.
I think this stuff really gets dog people worked up.

Kevin

[ducksoup]

Kevin
I know that this thread over on RTF has been locked -- and I understand why the moderator felt the neccessity to do so -- your caution is in order as this can get many responses from various retriever owners -- however the point that I raised is valid that the Continental Kennel Club is not an organization that should have any involvement with any form of retriever sport -- because of its stand on puppy mills and allowing registration of mixed breeds -- and I'm still concerned with Wildrose's alliance with them and indirectly then DU's
Mike Ormsby

[Kevin Hannah]

I know Mike and I agree completely, I don't disagree with anything you are saying. I was simpley saying that we don't want this thread to get out of hand and this is a subject that can snowball quick. Just keep that in mind as the thread progresses and we will be able to leave it active thats all.

Kevin

[ducksoup]

Actually I've said all I need to say -- and I appreciate your position as well as your words -- I wouldn't want anything to happen to undermine this forum (any more than I would RTF)

[Kevin Hannah]

Mike,

I personally don't like the practices of this kennel any more than most do and I certainly in no way support the Continental Kennel club. You and others are more than welcome to talk about and debate this on the forum I was simple reminding everyone that this subject has already resulted in a locked thread on RTF and to go easy with this one and we can let it go. I know and completely understand how you feel about this issue and I also think it is important to let people know what is going on so they can make smart decisions when it comes to buying dogs and/or supporting organizations.

I think for the benifit of others on the board you could explain the situation and let the members of this board in on what you have found. Lets just keep it informative without attacking any individuals or organizations.

Information helps everyone make better decisions, both with dogs and money.

Kevin

[Drew Good]

I agree with Kevin here, there is nothing wrong with debating issues relating to this as it would inform some of our newer member's about the "shadier" side of the dog industry. We just need it to be kept on the clean side as the last thing that I want is to be threatened with "Legal Actions" like this subject has caused other board owner's. http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/images/smilies/animated/behindsofa.gif But for the in term I think we are safe, they do not know we exist (YET)


But back to the subject, Wildrose has been criticized in the past for some of their actions and with that in mind I cannot see why they would get in bed with the CON-KC. It is just unfortunate that they are dragging DU into this whole mess with them. I was floored when I looked at their 2007 breeding schedule, it was sickening, just sickening:censored:

I have always thought that DU has done a good job but there is no way I could support in the future anymore because of this affiliation

[Kevin Hannah]

But back to the subject, Wildrose has been criticized in the past for some of their actions and with that in mind I cannot see why they would get in bed with the CON-KC. It is just unfortunate that they are dragging DU into this whole mess with them. I was floored when I looked at their 2007 breeding schedule, it was sickening, just sickening:censored:

I have always thought that DU has done a good job but there is no way I could support in the future anymore because of this affiliation

These are the issues that people need to be aware of. The breeding practices of this kennel are horible at best and the fact that DU has decided to affiliate with them is difficult to figure out for sure.
Just one more thing for people to consider when deciding which outdoor orfanizations to spend their hard earned money with.

Letters and e-mails to DU canada could help them to put pressure on DU USA to rethink this affiliation in the future once the existing contract or aggrement expires. I am sure lots of people on this board know someone involved with DU, you should make you opinions known to them.

Kevin

[ducksoup]

So here are the facts as I understand them -- on March 31/07 Wildrose Kennel is having a Wildrose British Open Retriever Field Trial in conjunction with the Continental Kennel Club; a "Continental Field Retriever Championship" is offered through the Con Kennel Club; to qualify, you have to register your dog with the Con Kennel Club -- this "kennel club" supports puppy mills and allows "registration" of mixed breeds, especially hybrid crosses like Labradoodles -- as well in February, a judges' clinic was held by Wildrose in association with the Continental Kennel Club -- in turn DU sponsors a Wildrose dog, Drake the DU dog, who is used in demos/DVDs/TV, so DU supposedly "benefits" from this relationship while it is almost certain Mike Stewart of Wildrose Kennels does (great marketing tool; sells a lot of pups/dogs/training/services) -- so indirectly by supporting Wildrose Kennels in this way, DU is also supporting the Continental Kennel Club -- this is at the very least "guilt by association" -- Wildrose Kennels breeds British style dogs, claiming they make better hunting dogs than American field bred dogs -- they provide the "gentleman's gun dog" -- personally, I don't care to get into a British vs. American argument -- but I do care when a group like the Continental Kennel Group is given legitimate standing by such affiliation as this provides -- and I'm further ticked off when it involves DU, an organization I support -- but you make up your own mind -- check out what is written on the other bulletin boards such as RTF and DU's Waterdog

[Drew Good]

Thanks for the heads up about the thread over at Waterdog Mike, I did not see that one yet. I don't have much time to post this morning but what I read over there really turns my stomach.

Drew

[ducksoup]

Just a quick reply to Kevin about contacting DU Canada -- I've already done that -- I was told by Fundraising Manager out of Provincial Office in Barrie that DU Canada was a separate entity and company from DU in States -- so if I had complaints about what was going on there to contact DU's HQ in Memphis -- I've done that too -- but had hoped for at least a letter from DU Canada to American counterpart -- so far nothing
Mike Ormsby

[rocko]

As a trainer, is Mike Stewart legit? I went out and bought that DVD, "Wildrose Way".

[Kevin Hannah]

As a trainer, is Mike Stewart legit? I went out and bought that DVD, "Wildrose Way".

I am not going to respond (publicly) as to his ability to train dogs. If you google Wildrose and check out his web site you will find some information which I find very troubling. They however think these stats are what makes them "one of the most sucessfull kennels in the US".

The fact that they breed about 60 litters per year, have literally thousands of cliects, and have about 200 deposits in on puppys at any given time of the year (which they are able to supply as well) leave an bad taste in my mouth. Look through the web site and see how many dogs they have on site and think about how much attention each of them could possibly get in one day. The flashy web sit and cool sales pitches are just a smoke screen for a glorified puppy mill in my opinion.

To put the litters in perspective with 60 litters per year they would be whelping a litter every 6 days, they would have 7-9 litters on the ground at any give time. If you average the litter size at 8 puppys that means they are taking care of 56-72 puppys, a couple moms that are ready to whelp, at least a few mating pairs and the rest of the dogs on site.
How much time and human interaction do any of these dogs get?
I am not judging this kennel, simply stating fact so everyone can judge them on their own.

Kevin

[Kevin Hannah]

As a trainer, is Mike Stewart legit? I went out and bought that DVD, "Wildrose Way".


Sorry Rocko,

Not sure if I answered your question for you or not. Check the threads on other forums about them and make your own choice. I can forward link to the other sites and threads if you need them.

I cannot really coment on the DVD as I have never seen it and I don't know anyone that has seen it.

Kevin

[Drew Good]

As a trainer, is Mike Stewart legit? I went out and bought that DVD, "Wildrose Way".

Rocko,

Like Kevin I cannot comment on what kind of trainer Mike Stewart is or on the quality of information in the DVD as I have not seen it. If you learned one thing from the DVD it may have been worth it (depending on cost). With that said I think you would be better of following a more common training program such as Lardy's or the Smartwork series.

As for Wildrose as a Kennel, I would not touch them with a 10 foot pole for many reasons that have been alreay stated in this thread. IMHO they are nothing but a glorified puppy mill that has enlisted a terrific marketting program to make them successfull. But with them associating themselves with a joke of a registry (CON-KC) they have shown their true colours.

Drew

[rocko]

The DVD just covers the basic. Nothing to exciting in it. It was a spur of the moment buy because someone on another forum PM me and told me that it was the best DVD out there. Stupid Me...I got suckered!!!

[Drew Good]

From what I have read into it Rocko Mike Stewart and Wildrose pride themselves on breeding and training Quote " The Gentlemans Hunting Dog". They take a different approch on training ( no e collars, no Force fetching ect ). In fact they believe that american bred labs have ruined the sport of FT's as they are way to "high powered" and " hard mouthed" and these traits need to be hidden by FF'ing them.

Well I am more than happy to say that I got one of each ( British sytle lab & an American Field bred lab) and if I was to compare each other and have to choose which one I would rather train and hunt over my field bred lab would win hands down ( sorry Diesel :emmbarassed: ).

Drew

[Drew Good]

Well I hate to dig up an old thread but this subject has resurfaced over at Waterdog as DU has made a statement about their involvement with Wildrose.

I just thought I would let anyone who is interested know so they can see what DU had to say....

Drew

[Kevin Hannah]

8 friggin pages already...I'm tired of reading now.

I think they need a dead horse icon for that thread.

Kevin

[ducksoup]

Kevin
I agree and I feel somewhat responsible for bringing this up on this Forum originally -- it is a dead horse that's been beat to death -- as I posted in my final post to Waterdog's original thread and ended the one and only post I made to the current one: "Enough is Enough. In the Name of the Holy Trinity of Retrievers -- the Almighty Labrador, the Heavenly Golden, and the Courageous Chessie -- let us lay this to rest and heal (or is it HEEL) ourselves. AMEN (hopefully to this once and for all)" -- instead of charging at windmills like Don Quixote, I'd rather spend my time and energy training, handling, and even talking DOGS -- but not running somebody down for little reason -- and I'll continue to support DU because they do good work -- and really I'm not about to cut my nose off to spite my face -- as to the Continental Kennel Club, I think the point has been made -- why dig up more -- and most of the recent thread's posts are simply bashing Wildrose and Mike Stewart -- I was as guilty as anybody but I've had time to think this through -- and ENOUGH is ENOUGH -- move on -- now let's talk about HTs or FTs or hunting -- let's keep it about the DOGS

[Kevin Hannah]

-- but not running somebody down for little reason --

This is fun sometimes though too...:fencing:




.....course I got banned from that site though:doh:


OK HT and FT's it is then Mike :nice work: