whoa or bump

[Spear]

I have had my dog on a lot of birds in the last month. He has pointed very well but sometimes but will go in and flush on certain occasions. I think it has a lot to do with how he is feeling that day. However if I see he has got wind of a bird and if I give the whoa command he will stop and wait unitl I flush the bird. My dog is still learning this game. The question being; should I let Trigger bump the bird even when I know I can stop him? He does not bump every time and so far I just see it as a reminder but I don't want him to be dependent on me to tell him to stop. Whoa or bump?

[Huntingonthebrain]

Jixer once said to me "WHOA is fine, but what if he is a half a mile away or not visible". I think he has to know to point on scent and wait. That being said Spear, don't get to frustrated I am in the same boat. My dog does real well on pigeons and not bad on chukar...but I think if he had definetly found that pheasant yesterday, he would have chased it. I found what worked really well was a check cord for a bit on birds and then when he is starting to hold well that way, when he points move in and "pet him up" real good for an extended period of time. I also think as sharon has told me before that your dog has to get used to each new bird. How many pheasants has he been on??? Maybe just a little more time on pheasants. He will get the picture. I know that is what I have to do with Mac. The virtue of patience... something I am just not patient enough to wait for...hehe :bigrin

[Sharon]

Let him bump good flying birds until he figures out he can't catch them ( up to about 1 years of age) and breaks himself.
After that ALWAYS have a way to restrain him when the bird flushes, until he is broke ( check cord etc.) Give him NO opportunities to break.

Hard to hear but: if you hunt with a dog and shoot over him when he points momentarily, breaks/busts unrestrained, he may never be a trustworthy, fully broke dog.

[Big Bird]

Jixer once said to me "WHOA is fine, but what if he is a half a mile away or not visible". I think he has to know to point on scent and wait. That being said Spear, don't get to frustrated I am in the same boat. My dog does real well on pigeons and not bad on chukar...but I think if he had definetly found that pheasant yesterday, he would have chased it. I found what worked really well was a check cord for a bit on birds and then when he is starting to hold well that way, when he points move in and "pet him up" real good for an extended period of time. I also think as sharon has told me before that your dog has to get used to each new bird. How many pheasants has he been on??? Maybe just a little more time on pheasants. He will get the picture. I know that is what I have to do with Mac. The virtue of patience... something I am just not patient enough to wait for...hehe :bigrin

Pheasants are the BIG leagues gentlemen, that is a pheasant is the hardest bird for a dog to handle. Pheasant would prefer to run than take to the wing, and for that reason when a pheasant hears a sound approaching they will run. The natural instinct of a dog is to track the scent , the bird gets pressured and finally takes to the wing. Thus you have a busted bird. The more wild birds will take to wing as soon as they hear a sound, even a car door closing.

A dog through experence will learn to point the scent, as he will remember a lesson in the bird flushing. A handler will now form a team with his dog. The handler will release the dog from point, with a command that will caution the dog to go slow. Some dogs want to move quickly to get to the bird and again the experience of the dog teaming up with the handler will get the trophy. I have seen very cleaver dogs that when released will make a large swing and push the bird back towards the handler. This again comes from experience and great team effort between the dog and handler. For those that can handle the pheasant as above they are in the big leagues.

Be patient, your pup is young, be willing to give up the improperly handled bird by your pup in favour of a bird the is correctly pointed. Your dog will learn and you will form a team for the future.

[Sharon]

Excellent post.

In the fall, pheasants are used at pointing breed trials. When we started in early Sept. my young dog was very disappointing to me. She pointed, the bird ran , she was confused, I could find the bird... not good. By the end of the trial season , she had figured it out ( as had I ). As it was a trial, she couldn't re-locate herself but when relocated she knew just what to do- come in from the back side and move that bird towards me.Sometimes she had to make 50 + yard circle to locate the bird from the original point.

When we hunt pheasants I let her relocate herself ( questionable thing to do), but she's still steady to the flush and shot. A real pleasure.

[Spear]

Very good advice thankyou.

[verno]

Let him bump good flying birds until he figures out he can't catch them.

Some breeds learn slower than others :icon1_lol:
http://www.ctvalleyvizslaclub.org/012806KiowaHuntingMP159.jpg

[Sharon]

Absolutely. The key is to do to do it right in their first year - let them chase, they'll figure out they can't catch the bird, they'll start to creep on point, then they'll hold , ( All this time you have said nothing.) and finally they hold and let you in front.

If this hasn't happened by a year?? then the handler has to intervene with whoa and checkcord. Never the best way as the dog is dependent on you for control now.

My young dog broke herself the right way by 10 months . My 5 year old will still break if she can't see you. ( bad first year. I got her at 3.)

[Jojoe]

All that dog needs is a cape! Neat pic!